Is using macs just a trend?

Johnisfaster · Post by **Johnisfaster** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:24 pm

subterFUSE wrote:
melocoton wrote:
subterFUSE wrote:iPods basically kept Apple alive for years while they waited and waited for the next gen processors from IBM. When they didn't come, they switched to Intel. But iPods have been the cash cow.
That's simply not true. The bulk of Apple's profits have always come from hardware sales. The margins on ipods are much smaller and I think in the big picture they are still a drop in the bucket in terms of Apple's overall profits. Ipods are a useful tool in getting people to switch to the mac platform though.

It is true.

iPods & iTunes sales have been the driving force for Apple's profit for the past few years. Where have you been?

can you back that up please? with a valid source? not that I don't believe you but it's always good to bring a valid source into a statement like that.

I find it hard to believe that a $2500 computer that is selling like hotcakes right now is bringing in less money than a $200 dollar ipod. granted ALOT of ipods are sold year round. but you would have to sell more than 10 to 1 (ipod, to computer sales) just to make them even as far as dollars coming into the store. so it's a stretch to me. but please back it up I'd be interested to hear more about it.

edit: by the way I'm well aware that "dollars coming into the store" is a VERY different concept than profit on the books. I'm not sure what the markup on each of these items is, but I think my point still has at least some validity.

deva · Post by **deva** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:40 pm

subterFUSE wrote:would you focus on the 2% market of Apple.... or on the other 98%?

Apple is currently 5% which is about a 1% increase from a year+ ago... still very small obviously and your point is right

subterFUSE · Post by **subterFUSE** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:43 pm

Johnisfaster wrote:
subterFUSE wrote:
melocoton wrote: That's simply not true. The bulk of Apple's profits have always come from hardware sales. The margins on ipods are much smaller and I think in the big picture they are still a drop in the bucket in terms of Apple's overall profits. Ipods are a useful tool in getting people to switch to the mac platform though.

It is true.

iPods & iTunes sales have been the driving force for Apple's profit for the past few years. Where have you been?
can you back that up please? with a valid source? not that I don't believe you but it's always good to bring a valid source into a statement like that.

I find it hard to believe that a $2500 computer that is selling like hotcakes right now is bringing in less money than a $200 dollar ipod. granted ALOT of ipods are sold year round. but you would have to sell more than 10 to 1 (ipod, to computer sales) just to make them even as far as dollars coming into the store. so it's a stretch to me. but please back it up I'd be interested to hear more about it.

edit: by the way I'm well aware that "dollars coming into the store" is a VERY different concept than profit on the books. I'm not sure what the markup on each of these items is, but I think my point still has at least some validity.

Good lord. Take your pic. The headlines have been the same for years. Here's a few articles, from different sources and from different dates.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5438562/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4170111.stm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... Apr13.html

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlene ... -EARNS.xml

http://www.forbes.com/digitalentertainm ... apple.html

As far as your comment about a $2500 computer vs. a $200 iPod.... you have to consider volume of sales, not just price and cost. A low margin, low cost item.... sold in vast quantities can easily generate more revenue than a higher cost item. This is what is happening with iPods. (Well, to be honest I don't know the margins on iPods.... knowing Apple, they are probably pretty high) But just think about it. Mac computers account for about 2% of the overall computer market. But iPods account for like 75% of the the media player market. PC & Mac people buy iPods, because they work on either platform. So the target audience is huge. Mac computers have the barrier of having to coax new buyers to join the ranks, which is more difficult.

subterFUSE · Post by **subterFUSE** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:01 pm

deva wrote:
subterFUSE wrote:would you focus on the 2% market of Apple.... or on the other 98%?
Apple is currently 5% which is about a 1% increase from a year+ ago... still very small obviously and your point is right

http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/03/20 ... /index.php

This article says less than 2%, worldwide.... though a little dated.

muscleandhate · Post by **muscleandhate** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:10 pm

no doubt that iPod sales have boosted apples influence in the personal computer market, I think iPods work out at around 70% of the current market share of mp3 players. This is so much so that many people actually use the term 'iPod' as a generic concept for mp3 players in general.

I truly believe that apple hardware is as good as the best PC manufacturers on the market today, and certainly better than the rest. OS X is a much better operating system to use than Windows. The only problem with Apple computers is that you become alienated through the fact that most software developers will always accommodate XP users, due to the fact that software designers are subject to the same disciplines of the free market as any other profitable organisation. That stated, with Apple going Intel, programs like Boot camp and parallels, this issue will only become less of a problem over time, especially as these programs are improved.

Mike Goodwin · Post by **Mike Goodwin** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:06 am

musick wrote:Vista will be so pro-audio unfriendly it will make the move to Macs even larger....

Care to expand on that?

rbmonosylabik · Post by **rbmonosylabik** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:11 am

700 MB RAM just for the OS doesn't sound very pro app friendly

Mike Goodwin · Post by **Mike Goodwin** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:15 am

hoffman2k wrote:
knotkranky wrote:
hoffman2k wrote:Not to mention:

- Inter Application MIDI

- Built-in audio networking plugins

- The fact that you can plug and play anything while live is running. Like midi controllers or software.

- And soon we'll have the ability to combine all that stuff with ichat.
So i can work with somebody on a track in Live, we can stream the audio to each other and take control of each others desktop (feature of the next osx)
Not without latency. But everytime you made a change that you both like. You just send over the .als file...
Ah yes, are macs more suited for networked Live collaborations ?

.
Currently not any less then pc's I imagine. But with the addition of OSX 10.5. Mac users will be able to assume control over a mac on the other side of the world from the built-in IM client.
This will make it dead easy to illustrate a point or teach a trick.

Windows has had "remote desktop" for a very long time.

rbmonosylabik · Post by **rbmonosylabik** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:32 am

Macs too. The idea is that now using iChat you can easily show another iChat user projects done in Keynote, iMovie, and other supported apps. You also can take control of the other user's computer to help explain stuff in an easy way that doesn't need setting up a VNC or something like that.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:47 am

subterFUSE wrote:iPods basically kept Apple alive for years while they waited and waited for the next gen processors from IBM. When they didn't come, they switched to Intel. But iPods have been the cash cow.

Ipods help Apple a bit, but the truth is the markup on the iPod is not as high as the rest of the line. They sell millions of computers and millions of iPods, but from what I can tell iPod sales are nowhere near 10X higher than the rest of their line.
Basically Apple has not been holding on by a thin hair like you're imagining here. They've been doing fine. Intel macs have helped to get more PC users, but the migration to PC is the same as it's been since OSX hit, small.

I don't care if Apple use is trendy now, I've always used macs, and I see no reason to switch to an OS that can't even keep spyware from being installed on people's computers.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:53 am

hoffman2k wrote:On the other hand. Automat 1.0 will hit the streets in a few months. That plugin is already a legend before it goes on sale. Stiwi will be rich, biatch
Only comes as AudioUnit at the moment.

OK where did you here that stiwi is going to market Automat for sale? Urs told me that Stiwi didn't see the point of selling it, his day job was good enough cash for him etc. and he just did it for fun, even though Urs urged him to think about selling it.
How's that for AU coder gossip!

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:02 am

Machinesworking wrote:I don't care if Apple use is trendy now, I've always used macs, and I see no reason to switch to an OS that can't even keep spyware from being installed on people's computers.

Agreed.

Mac OS is wwaaaaayyyyyyyyyy better.

So, who starts these war threads the most; PC or Mac dudes.
.

subterFUSE · Post by **subterFUSE** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:04 am

They sell millions of computers and millions of iPods, but from what I can tell iPod sales are nowhere near 10X higher than the rest of their line.

Actually, Apple sells about 5 iPods for every computer. That's a big difference, any way you look at it.

The company said it sold 5.3 million iPods and 1.07 million Macintosh PCs. During the prior quarter, which included the holiday selling season, Apple sold 4.5 million iPods and just more than a million Macintoshes. Compared with a year ago, Mac sales are up nearly 40 percent and iPod sales are up five-fold. - news.com

http://news.com.com/Apple+earnings+cont ... 69710.html

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:25 am

subterFUSE wrote:
They sell millions of computers and millions of iPods, but from what I can tell iPod sales are nowhere near 10X higher than the rest of their line.

Actually, Apple sells about 5 iPods for every computer. That's a big difference, any way you look at it.

The company said it sold 5.3 million iPods and 1.07 million Macintosh PCs. During the prior quarter, which included the holiday selling season, Apple sold 4.5
million iPods and just more than a million Macintoshes. Compared with a year ago, Mac sales are up nearly 40 percent and iPod sales are up five-fold. - news.com
http://news.com.com/Apple+earnings+cont ... 69710.html

If they make $100 per iPod and $500 per mac, then It,s 50%.
Anybody know the real profit points? Anyway, mac would be fine without the iPod.
But the fact that mac computers benefit is certainly a good thing. So i don't get it.

2% or 5% market share, who cares.
It's like I drive a much better car than the rest of the 95% who don't understand what a good ride is.
.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:29 am

subterFUSE wrote:
They sell millions of computers and millions of iPods, but from what I can tell iPod sales are nowhere near 10X higher than the rest of their line.

Actually, Apple sells about 5 iPods for every computer. That's a big difference, any way you look at it.

When you say that iPods are keeping poor old Apple alive, and actual sales, now or before the iPod, don't even hold that to be true......
sure iPods make Apple money, but Apple is NOT being kept alive through iPod sales, period. It was a dumb thing to say, and I don't at all consider you a dumb guy, so I commented.