ableton says no to selling operator

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:26 pm

john gordon wrote:Hello,

I am sorry, but selling Operator separately is not possible, since it
belongs to the Live license (it is not a separate license). This license
may only be transferred as a whole, including serial numbers of all
versions and Operator.

Please let us know if you would like to arrange this, we will provide
you with all necessary information then.

Best regards,

Robert

So what do you think they will arrange angstrom ? If not the swapping of licenses...

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:38 pm

ah I see what you mean then,

I though the idea being discussed in relation to " the same version" was that anyone could sell to anyone else as long as they both had 5.21 or whatever.

But what is being discussed is two users deactivating their copies of Live, swapping serial numbers for Live and Operator, then re-activating.

I thought the two suggested methods were seperate, but in fact they form one big ugly whole.

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:08 pm

ya...its a weird way of wording/doing it, but the end result is the same...

and they said they'd do it....

so...you can sell it, with a bit fiddling about

Nixon · Post by **Nixon** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:10 pm

apparently they like workarounds

ejectorset · Post by **ejectorset** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:15 pm

b0unce wrote:
ejectorset wrote:
1--- ie. if i knew your operator unlock code i could use it to unlock live 5 if i did not already own it.

2--- i can see where they are coming from though, why would someone want to buy operator from you instead of them, unless they are not a valid registered legal live 5 user?

3--- edit: maybe i should make this clearer, they probably do not want anyone using (buying) operator or sampler if they did not buy live 5.
1: No, the unlock code is unique to your computer's ID/Fingerprint. its useless to everyone else. They've done this loads of times, as most other software developers do too....its not some new security issue. Its simple to do...just a matter of issuing new serial numbers, making void older ones.

2--- cos 2nd hand stuff is cheaper

3--- and what exactly are they going to use operator/sampler with , if not ableton live ?

ok, do you know for a fact that they have a way to unvalidate unlock codes remotely once the computer has the soft (live or opertator) unlocked?

usually when people do it requires internet which is pretty easy to work around.

more importantly, # 3--- of course operator only works in live, my point was there are A LOT of people out there using cracked versions of live. i would bet that they do not want operator being sold seperate from live, because they DO NOT want people who are using live, who DID NOT pay for live, to be able to use operator or sample. I bet the new instrument packin things they are making for live 6 will be the same way.

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:21 pm

ejectorset wrote: ok, do you know for a fact that they have a way to unvalidate unlock codes remotely once the computer has the soft (live or opertator) unlocked?

usually when people do it requires internet which is pretty easy to work around.

more importantly, # 3--- of course operator only works in live, my point was there are A LOT of people out there using cracked versions of live. i would bet that they do not want operator being sold seperate from live, because they DO NOT want people who are using live, who DID NOT pay for live, to be able to use operator or sample. I bet the new instrument packin things they are making for live 6 will be the same way.

lol...in that post I had initially written "and before you even suggest it, no you cant use a genuine operator serial with a cracked version of live" ...but I edited it out, didnt think anyone would actually think thats possible

no, I dont know for a fact they have a way to unvalidate unlock codes.

but what I said to you was in response to your assumption that someone could use an unlock code not intended for them. thats not possible, because the unlock code is unique to your computers 'fingerprint'

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:51 pm

Sorry guys, but the cracked versions of Live already have Operator cracked and unlocked too, I imagine Sampler will be too if Live 6 gets cracked.

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:57 pm

robbmasters wrote: But I'm not a lawyer.

You do a good impersonation of one.

mbenigni · Post by **mbenigni** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:47 pm

I knew this was going to be good as soon as I read the first post. No time to read all 6 pages of this thread, but the first thing that comes to mind...

Anybody remember the "One version of Live for everyone" thread?

You've gotta wonder whether the capital generated by these synths is worth all the hooplah (much of it negative.) Ableton may do more for their revenue overall by bundling their softs into upcoming versions of Live as "added value", thereby attracting new customers. Arguably too late now... and also a dead horse... just the first thing that came to mind, as I said.

friend_kami · Post by **friend_kami** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:51 pm

john gordon wrote:Hello,

I am sorry, but selling Operator separately is not possible, since it
belongs to the Live license (it is not a separate license). This license
may only be transferred as a whole, including serial numbers of all
versions and Operator.

see, heres what i dont get really.
if you have to buy operator separetly to use it, then why dont you get a separate license for it?

no, you get a license that according to Robert belongs to the Live license.
clearly states that its not a separate license, so imo, you should get it when you buy live.

if not, you should atleast be able to sell it if you dont like it.

my two cents.

ejectorset · Post by **ejectorset** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:56 pm

i would much rather they do things like they do now. they are very generous with their licenese, ie. letting you run 1 copy of the computer on both your desktop and laptop computer. there is a lot of software out there that does not allow this.

based on their open mindedness (realizing people record music on one computer, then play live using another) and generousity on that matter, i am sure they have a very good reason to not let people sell just operator.

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:03 pm

ejectorset wrote:
based on their open mindedness (realizing people record music on one computer, then play live using another) and generousity on that matter, i am sure they have a very good reason to not let people sell just operator.

I think the issue is simply the way they have set up their copy protection, there's a flaw in the logic of linking the instrument to the host serial. It probably seemed great to them when they were coming at the issue from an anti-piracy standpoint .. what else would a copy-protection spec. meeting be concerned with?

I think they never thought that anyone would want to legitimately un-install their instruments to sell them on!

It's just a mistake they have made.

like I said earlier - they could do with finding a way round this because as the Live add-ons for cash multiply - the issue will arise more often.

Another thing
those people who have sold their Operator in the past .. how the hell does that work then ?

dom · Post by **dom** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:06 pm

Hi Folks,

sorry for the confusion generated by this topic, this was clearly not Roberts intention. Being strict and according to the current EULA such a transfer would not be possible, so Robert was surely right with his answer. On the other hand it is a fact that we already transferred Operator licenses in the past in some cases, leaving a funny taste to the whole story. I also "feel" that it should be possible to transfer Operator licenses and that we should handle it this way in the future, but we have to go through some things now with the sales team to be able to communicate a waterproof decision because legal things are involved.
Please allow some days for that, i'm absolutely sure we will get a decision that everyone will be satisfied with.

John: You should have recieved an email by Robert explaining the situation, you can be sure this issue will be solved.

Rock on!

dom

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:13 pm

Huh?

I sold my license and it went rather smooth

friend_kami · Post by **friend_kami** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:30 pm

dom wrote:Hi Folks,

sorry for the confusion generated by this topic, this was clearly not Roberts intention. Being strict and according to the current EULA such a transfer would not be possible, so Robert was surely right with his answer. On the other hand it is a fact that we already transferred Operator licenses in the past in some cases, leaving a funny taste to the whole story. I also "feel" that it should be possible to transfer Operator licenses and that we should handle it this way in the future, but we have to go through some things now with the sales team to be able to communicate a waterproof decision because legal things are involved.
Please allow some days for that, i'm absolutely sure we will get a decision that everyone will be satisfied with.

John: You should have recieved an email by Robert explaining the situation, you can be sure this issue will be solved.

Rock on!

dom

cheers.