Ableton Forum

franknputer wrote:The wording of a poll question is not going to cause the downfall of Western Civilization.

I wouldn't count on that these days...

The thing about how much the abes made from former
pirates. Not really that interesting for anyone - the "good"
stuff is in the current pirate users. 17.000 board users of
which half have been using cracks. No one knows if there
are 50.000 or more current pirate users. So all those maths
dont really mean a thing.

Did I use the "extended demo" yes. A change of sequenser
is a big and major move for me. I want to get really deep,
get the shortcuts in my fingers, save, open, copy, move,
check file handling - the full monty before I can make my
decision. With Live it didn't take that long to see that this
was a keeper. That said I still think that especially with
sequencers a 3-6 months trial would be required - with
no cripling whatsoever.

Dongles, PACE, fingerprints, eyescan, dna tests - Everything can
and will be cracked - and used. All these measures only trouble
the actual paying customers - which is why I personally would
never buy DRM equipped music - rather pay twice as much for
non DRM.

This very board was also a key point for mating with Live. Never
seen such a dynamic and product praising company board before.

I never did, but I'm firmly in the 'piracy isn't a real problem'-camp - and I know I've given more than one piece of software a miss cos of intrusive copy protection measures.

Ableton aren't treating all their users as potential criminals which is something I find very commendable.

Allison Redhead wrote:
Note the date and the time, fellow readers. It was all Allison's fault! Damn redheads. Wouldn't be in Iraq if they just kept their mouths shut!

Got a Live Delta 1.5 with my Audiophile card a while back. Upgraded to v4, then v5, and now v6.

I've never used pirated music software, period. I will admit to having used cracked copies of Photoshop and Office, though.

I dont get the people who say the poll means nothing...

of the people who took part in the poll 105 people went from crack to license, thats 105 x 450 = 47,250 euro. and thats only the initial price of admission, after that theres upgrades and addons.

Ask someone at ableton HQ if 47,250euro means nothing to them.

b0unce wrote:I dont get the people who say the poll means nothing...

of the people who took part in the poll 105 people went from crack to license, thats 105 x 450 = 47,250 euro. and thats only the initial price of admission, after that theres upgrades and addons.

Ask someone at ableton HQ if 47,250euro means nothing to them.

Statistically this poll means zilch because you can't qualify the data - and you have no clue how many people did NOT respond to it. I bet most people using cracked Live's never frequent this place.

Live's worth the money you pay for it, very fiendly stuff, so there's no need to crack.
For testing, I only cracked the whole ILOCK Hardware Protection (but i informed all the manufacturers about it).

kovacs wrote:

b0unce wrote:I dont get the people who say the poll means nothing...

of the people who took part in the poll 105 people went from crack to license, thats 105 x 450 = 47,250 euro. and thats only the initial price of admission, after that theres upgrades and addons.

Ask someone at ableton HQ if 47,250euro means nothing to them.

Statistically this poll means zilch because you can't qualify the data - and you have no clue how many people did NOT respond to it. I bet most people using cracked Live's never frequent this place.

cant qualify the data ? fair enough, but for the sake of discussion lets 'pretend' everyone is being honest.

and I bet you're probably on to something - mostly paying customers here I'd guess, so whats wrong with taking a poll amongst the paying customers only ? You still get useful information out of it.

The poll doesnt mean zilch?, almost 50,000 euro in revenue is not zilch.

I think its worth knowing that a chunk of your revenue came in after they had used the crack for some time. You dont see the worth in that ? Thats your problem

b0unce wrote:The poll doesnt mean zilch?, almost 50,000 euro in revenue is not zilch.

I think its worth knowing that a chunk of your revenue came in after they had used the crack for some time. You dont see the worth in that ? Thats your problem

That's my problem? LOL. You're the one who is dreaming up a figure of €50,000 Euro. That is small fry in the big scheme of things - I suspect the Abes are losing millions in lost sales to piracy.

A poll can be interesting even if the data it provides is actually worthless.

b0unce wrote:The poll doesnt mean zilch?, almost 50,000 euro in revenue is not zilch.

Could I please have your estimate on how many people are
running a cracked Live today

This board dont tell you anything on the amount of pirates
and converters.

They wouldnt be much of a business if they didnt think about these things. 100+ licenses coming straight from warez use, or 50% of this small sample group.

Man they'd have to be retarded like you to discount that information.

and the 50k figure isnt dreamt up, its a reasonable estimate. probably much more with addons (operator, sampler) and upgrades.

Jan Holm wrote:

b0unce wrote:The poll doesnt mean zilch?, almost 50,000 euro in revenue is not zilch.

Could I please have your estimate on how many people are
running a cracked Live today

This board dont tell you anything on the amount of pirates
and converters.

thats not the point, this is a poll amongst the paying customers. we're the important ones, giving money to ableton. and if half of us used a crack first thats worth knowing

they could come up with a stiffer protection system to reel in those unquantifiable warez users who will always use warez, but then they'd be jeopardisng the potential revenue that comes from using warez for a while. best way to find out? ask the PAYING customers what THEIR habits are. half of them used the crack - jee thats worth knowing.


What is your motivation to discredit this poll ?...info is info, you're better off knowing it than not.

b0unce wrote:What is your motivation to discredit this poll ?...info is info, you're better off knowing it than not.

Before you make a complete fool of yourself - nobody is *discrediting* this poll. It is fun as entertainment. As a source of market data it has no value. I do think the Abes are more than aware of the fact and figures, and if you thinkk this poll is helping them in any way you're deluding yourself.

Learn something about statistics. Or better yet - go make music. That is, hopefully, what most of us own Live 6 for.

Info is info - and some information is worthless. It may be a fun exercise - but that does not make it useful.

When did a bunch of statisticians start using Live? Geez people, it's just a quick poll out of curiousity, not a life and death data gathering exercise.