Ableton Forum

News on Guitar Rig UB/update and NI showing some "excellent communication skills".

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... hp?t=41229

and some new components...

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... 1162481913

eyeknow wrote:
Let me try this.....again......I really don't care how long it takes....it's not the point. What is the point is that ni is teasing customers along, and in the case of guitarrig and the guitar combos (as well as absynth, fm(whatever) and battery) they have flat out lied.

remember, battery 2, absynth 3, and fm 7 were originally slated to become 29 dollar updates, not 100 dollar plus up"grades".........

You are remembering things the way you want to, not the way it was plainly stated on their site in the preliminary release schedule.
It very clearly read UB would come as $29 updates or in the form of product upgrades! Personally, with that knowledge in mind I found a copy of Komplete Care for $249, so while you whine about the unfairness of it all, I get Komplete 4 and a voucher for $180 for the NI shop as a compensation for the whole debacle of UB updates etc.
I'm not trying to be rude, but I run a small business myself, and people are always trying to get everything as cheap as possible, they don't care about development costs, or other expenses. I would be willing to bet that the $29 barley covers development costs in this case. Hell, Ableton even had a deal where they would sell the UB version to you for $49 and you could make the money back if you bought their upgrade to Live 6! Sounds VERY similar to buying an upgrade of FM7 to FM8 for Intal mac compatibility to me, but hey NI are big meanies!
Seriously, you need to think about these things before you react emotionally. NI have MANY major problems IMO, but the whole debacle of UB upgrades/updates simply isn't that big of an issue if you actually decide to look at the information that is out there about it. NI clearly stated that they had coded in Code Warrior and that UB was going to be rough, the preliminary release schedule clearly states that dates are subject to change. You see, there are very clear straight forward reasons why most developers don't release any information at all, people like you hold them to the dates, and start internet threads about the lameness of the company that failed to come through with a projected release.
You are't mad at the companies that don't say shit are you? You didn't start any threads about how lame they were anyway.
So, my question for you is this. Would you rather NI just say "soon" or "please be patient, we are working on them" or use some other ZERO information rhetoric than at least try to let you know when they think they might be done? I sure the hell wouldn't!!! I'd rather be disappointed and at least think it might be possible that it comes out in time, than just not know shit.
Basically I would rather have the Ableton or NI approach to product development, (information ahead of time) than the Apple, Arturia or PSP approach, (zero information until product is released).

Machinesworking wrote:

eyeknow wrote:
Let me try this.....again......I really don't care how long it takes....it's not the point. What is the point is that ni is teasing customers along, and in the case of guitarrig and the guitar combos (as well as absynth, fm(whatever) and battery) they have flat out lied.

remember, battery 2, absynth 3, and fm 7 were originally slated to become 29 dollar updates, not 100 dollar plus up"grades".........

You are remembering things the way you want to, not the way it was plainly stated on their site in the preliminary release schedule.
It very clearly read UB would come as $29 updates or in the form of product upgrades! Personally, with that knowledge in mind I found a copy of Komplete Care for $249, so while you whine about the unfairness of it all, I get Komplete 4 and a voucher for $180 for the NI shop as a compensation for the whole debacle of UB updates etc.
I'm not trying to be rude, but I run a small business myself, and people are always trying to get everything as cheap as possible, they don't care about development costs, or other expenses. I would be willing to bet that the $29 barley covers development costs in this case. Hell, Ableton even had a deal where they would sell the UB version to you for $49 and you could make the money back if you bought their upgrade to Live 6! Sounds VERY similar to buying an upgrade of FM7 to FM8 for Intal mac compatibility to me, but hey NI are big meanies!
Seriously, you need to think about these things before you react emotionally. NI have MANY major problems IMO, but the whole debacle of UB upgrades/updates simply isn't that big of an issue if you actually decide to look at the information that is out there about it. NI clearly stated that they had coded in Code Warrior and that UB was going to be rough, the preliminary release schedule clearly states that dates are subject to change. You see, there are very clear straight forward reasons why most developers don't release any information at all, people like you hold them to the dates, and start internet threads about the lameness of the company that failed to come through with a projected release.
You are't mad at the companies that don't say shit are you? You didn't start any threads about how lame they were anyway.
So, my question for you is this. Would you rather NI just say "soon" or "please be patient, we are working on them" or use some other ZERO information rhetoric than at least try to let you know when they think they might be done? I sure the hell wouldn't!!! I'd rather be disappointed and at least think it might be possible that it comes out in time, than just not know shit.
Basically I would rather have the Ableton or NI approach to product development, (information ahead of time) than the Apple, Arturia or PSP approach, (zero information until product is released).

Ok, well, ain't got anything to do with what I'm saying. But have fun with live!

anyways, instead blurping out "get whoever" crap, let's wait and see on the newest post from the ni forum.

the link was posted already, but here it is again.

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum ... hp?t=41229

eyeknow wrote:

Machinesworking wrote:

eyeknow wrote:
remember, battery 2, absynth 3, and fm 7 were originally slated to become 29 dollar updates, not 100 dollar plus up"grades".........

You are remembering things the way you want to, not the way it was plainly stated on their site in the preliminary release schedule.
It very clearly read UB would come as $29 updates or in the form of product upgrades!

Ok, well, ain't got anything to do with what I'm saying. But have fun with live!

Dude, you aren't helping yourself out any by trying to play like you can't follow what I'm saying, and pretending I'm not following you, when it's as plain as day I'm replying to your arguments.
If you didn't know, "product upgrades" meant that the updates would also come as upgrades to a new version, which would cost the price of the upgrade, that is most definitely not NI's fault. It was in plain english.

Whether or not I or you agree with that is besides the point. You flatly stated that NI lied, they most certainly did not, get over it.

People act like

N.I. has done nothing wrong...

ever...

Machinesworking wrote:I would be willing to bet that the $29 barley covers development costs in this case.

Yes and no. $29 wouldn't cover development costs. BUT, it's not a cost that they should be passing on to customers - they need to take it on board as a standard business cost. Imagine they didn't develop intel support - the next version of the product would be no use to customers and no one would buy a new copy as it wouldn't work on new hardware. Why are existing customers penalised but not new ones?

~Pev

BinaryB wrote:People act like

N.I. has done nothing wrong...

ever...

Yep, that would be machineate ( or however you spell it)

Machinesworking wrote:

eyeknow wrote:

Machinesworking wrote: You are remembering things the way you want to, not the way it was plainly stated on their site in the preliminary release schedule.
It very clearly read UB would come as $29 updates or in the form of product upgrades!

Ok, well, ain't got anything to do with what I'm saying. But have fun with live!

Dude, you aren't helping yourself out any by trying to play like you can't follow what I'm saying, and pretending I'm not following you, when it's as plain as day I'm replying to your arguments.
If you didn't know, "product upgrades" meant that the updates would also come as upgrades to a new version, which would cost the price of the upgrade, that is most definitely not NI's fault. It was in plain english.

Whether or not I or you agree with that is besides the point. You flatly stated that NI lied, they most certainly did not, get over it.

Ok, again, whatever.........you win........go use live and have fun with it!

pev wrote:

Machinesworking wrote:I would be willing to bet that the $29 barley covers development costs in this case.

Yes and no. $29 wouldn't cover development costs. BUT, it's not a cost that they should be passing on to customers - they need to take it on board as a standard business cost. Imagine they didn't develop intel support - the next version of the product would be no use to customers and no one would buy a new copy as it wouldn't work on new hardware. Why are existing customers penalised but not new ones?

~Pev

Not to mention.........NI was the very first company to announce support for "UB'S" at winter namm.....for those who don't get what winter means....that's january.

at any rate, they have given what will now be the 9th promised update......we'll see.................

pev wrote:

Machinesworking wrote:I would be willing to bet that the $29 barley covers development costs in this case.

Yes and no. $29 wouldn't cover development costs. BUT, it's not a cost that they should be passing on to customers - they need to take it on board as a standard business cost. Imagine they didn't develop intel support - the next version of the product would be no use to customers and no one would buy a new copy as it wouldn't work on new hardware. Why are existing customers penalised but not new ones?

~Pev

Existing customers aren't punished, Customers that spend thousands of dollars on a new machine that requires NI to rewrite existing code to run on the dammed thing have been asked to pay a whole $29. Compared to the cost of even a mac mini, it's not much, but the same people who decided to drop on average probably around $1700 on a machine before their software was coded for it are angry because they have to pay a whole $29??? It baffles me?
Face it, you and I might like Apple hardware, but it's been a total PITA in the last few years for developers to have Apple version of their software, and all the internet whining about how "unfair" it is that a developer is gouging them for $29 whole dollars, a new upgrade etc! makes all mac users look like spoiled little kids. The computers are a bit more expensive, have required a new plug in standard (AU), an initial rewrite of their software (OS9 to OSX), now a couple years later another rewrite of the software.
The only people that have a right to complain about this IMO are those whose powerbooks died, forcing an early hardware upgrade, and even then, that really cannot be blamed on NI.
I have plenty of beef with NI, but this consistent focus on them for doing absolutely nothing different than 99% of the developers out there is annoying. Like I said, it makes mac users in general look spoiled and unrealistic.

eyeknow wrote:Not to mention.........NI was the very first company to announce support for "UB'S" at winter namm.....for those who don't get what winter means....that's january.

at any rate, they have given what will now be the 9th promised update......we'll see.................

You need to read the information NI give correctly, NI haven't promised anything but eventual support for Intel macs.

Preliminary release schedule*
coupled with *subject to change on their site, is no indication of a "promised" anything. You really need to chill about this because you just are not grasping basic concepts here. You keep on spouting misinformation. There's been plenty of times on this board when you said something that made sense, but your NI info makes no sense.
Sure, you can assume that they will deliver on time, but when I see things like "*subject to change" on the projected release dates for software that hasn't been finished, I see that for what it is. A rough estimate.

Machinesworking wrote: The only people that have a right to complain about this IMO are those whose powerbooks died, forcing an early hardware upgrade, and even then, that really cannot be blamed on NI.

Thats my position...

Machinesworking wrote: are angry because they have to pay a whole $29??? It baffles me?

It's not only $29. I have reaktor 4, battery 2 and pro-53. I have to pay for upgrades to reaktor 5, battery 3 as well as the $29 for all three. Do the maths on how much it costs...

~Pev

pev wrote:It's not only $29. I have reaktor 4, battery 2 and pro-53. I have to pay for upgrades to reaktor 5, battery 3 as well as the $29 for all three. Do the maths on how much it costs...

OK you have to upgrade Battery, then probably you should wait on Pro 53, and Reactor. I'm pretty dammed sure Pro 53 is due for an upgrade. I never use it personally, if it sounded more like an analogue synth I would.
You don't have to pay the 29$ for the UB version if you are upgrading, I'm pretty sure of that.
Basically you'll be paying what I did, around $250. In the end you'll have a lot of new features on a much faster machine though. Seriously, you could have bought a powerbook for peanuts if you wanted to wait to upgrade, it's still your choice to A: stay on mac, and B: get a new machine that while very fast, requires some money for updates.

I paid for the Live update, and Logic, Apple's baby cost $50 as well. So far those who've charged me for updates have been NI, Ableton, and Apple. The one that pisses me off is Apple. They have my money in so many different ways, yet charged me for an update to Logic UB!
Personally, reactor 5 is so much more stable and easier to navigate etc. than 4, that it's worth it. I haven't received battery 3 yet, 2 had some major improvements though, and much better kits.

pev wrote: Why are existing customers penalised but not new ones?

Every company out there does the same thing. Upgrades are a form of desire tax I guess?
You had a machine fail, and desired a faster new machine. If you had Logic you would pay $50 for an update of logic for a $2000 macbook pro you just bought from the same dammed company!!

Ableton played a nice fast one. $49 for the UB, and a $49 discount on Live 6! So effectively they insured that all us Intel mac users would upgrade for $70+! While it was well played, in the end they got your money to pass to their pockets.