Ableton Forum

Couple of things (some said by others already I'm sure):

- Has anyone speculated that the 2-3 odd years that it took them to develop this may have been because of a contractual obligation or a non-compete after departing Ableton?

- You have to hand it to them that without even having a top tier marketing department they were able to convince consumers to pay good money to help them test their software. And those same consumers are genuinely impressed by the turn around time to fix the bugs that should never have been there in the first place. I think you can only do that once and get away with it.

- The rate at which the bugs are being found and fixed will most surely put the developers in their respective graves very early. I can't see how any meaningful strategic development can occur on a version 2 without an inflow of fresh coding talent. This of course will take cash so at least you can be assured that the hard earned dollars spent on the privilege of helping to beta test might give them enough solvency to make a version 2. They've hired at least one guy off the KVR forum (although there is a small chance that he's actually paying to work there in much the same way as he paid to test the software) so it seems they are inching forward.

- I've watched at least a couple of hours of BWS vids and you can't help but notice that it's pretty much a copycat of Live with the left and right panels switched. How that passes as a business model I'm not sure but I suppose there's a fair amount of latitude in the "looks-and-works-mostly-the-same-but-isn't-infringement" sort of way. I'm such a new user to Ableton that I don't really have any emotional attachment to it, yet I feel somewhat offended rather than flattered in the mimicry.

- I've been in this exact position before having purchased some software whose developers left their company to start a new company and then basically did a copy/paste of the underlying product data to make a copycat product and then sold it to the customer base of the first company and then got sued for it. Well, 10 years later both products and both companies are still around and I happen to own the copycat software rather than the original. So who knows, I may be BWS biggest fan in 5 years.

clydesdale wrote: - Has anyone speculated that the 2-3 odd years that it took them to develop this may have been because of a contractual obligation or a non-compete after departing Ableton?

If 2-3 years sounds long do you have ANY IDEA how much work it takes to write SW of this complexity from scratch?
How many other DAWs do you know that work in 3 platforms: Windows, Mac and Linux?

tone61 wrote:

clydesdale wrote: - Has anyone speculated that the 2-3 odd years that it took them to develop this may have been because of a contractual obligation or a non-compete after departing Ableton?

If 2-3 years sounds long do you have ANY IDEA how much work it takes to write SW of this complexity from scratch?
How many other DAWs do you know that work in 3 platforms: Windows, Mac and Linux?

Confusing things for me.

If you were so far off on the coding, why would make a website with IN BETA nearly 2 1/2 years ago?

Can't get past this.

eyeknow wrote: Confusing things for me.

If you were so far off on the coding, why would make a website with IN BETA nearly 2 1/2 years ago?

What do YOU think about companies that don't have a website?

And how long do you think it takes to make a simple website that shows some info but doesn't have any functionality like downloading demo versions or buying the product?
see places like:
www.wix.com
www.weebly.com

tone61 wrote:

clydesdale wrote: - Has anyone speculated that the 2-3 odd years that it took them to develop this may have been because of a contractual obligation or a non-compete after departing Ableton?

If 2-3 years sounds long do you have ANY IDEA how much work it takes to write SW of this complexity from scratch?
How many other DAWs do you know that work in 3 platforms: Windows, Mac and Linux?

Pure speculation on my part (hence the word speculated), I'm exploring other possible forces at work that are common in such scenarios.

Given the pace that they are fixing bugs, it seems to me they could have accomplished the same thing with a proper beta test and would have been delayed by nothing more than a couple of months and could have had much less of mixed reaction. And given the volume of bugs caught by a handful of users it implies to me that there were actually very few application specific tests done prior to launch. So why launch? Strategic mistake or a financial requirement?

shadx312 wrote:

Considering the Mac VS PC debate and it's fruitful run, no end will ever be in sight for this one.

No, but it's valid

It's not one of those things where I think it's annoying that I'll go bonkers.
I'm just sayin' 'where ya been?'
ie just playin around Clyde

It's been fun up to this point but someone's killed my horse and I need to find a ride home. Later.

shadx312 wrote:No, but it's valid

It's not one of those things where I think it's annoying that I'll go bonkers.
I'm just sayin' 'where ya been?'
ie just playin around Clyde

Where I been? Do you know how much effort it takes to make a German "scheisse" video when you don't have support for multi channel VSTs?

Same as the kvr one. It's been fun but I'm not opposed to locking it.

tone61 wrote:

eyeknow wrote: Confusing things for me.

If you were so far off on the coding, why would make a website with IN BETA nearly 2 1/2 years ago?

What do YOU think about companies that don't have a website?

And how long do you think it takes to make a simple website that shows some info but doesn't have any functionality like downloading demo versions or buying the product?
see places like:
http://www.wix.com
http://www.weebly.com

I don't know what that means, I'm simply stating that considering, there are reasons why people are a bit miffed. Look, more power to 'em. I've tried to quit this thread time after time but it keeps reeling me back in because it shows up under "my posts" and there is not enough discipline in me to just ignore it

Sorry about that.

It's been fun up to this point but someone's killed my horse and I need to find a ride home. Later.

!!!MY FRIEND FOR LITTLE EXTRA I ALLOW YOU MAKE SCHEISS VIDEO!!!

Machinesworking wrote: actually it was the sound of your synapses backfiring.

Nobody but you has a problem with deva, and we can all write his sig correctly.

Me and eyeknow completely disagree for the most part on the state of Bitwig, and we aren't running around causing forum drama over it.

Nothing I've said about you, or in debate with you in this thread warranted the "you're the worst troll evar!" PM you sent me.
And this was for stating the obvious, that you're ridiculously passionate about DAWs.

You, are your own worst enemy here. I can't be any more clear about it than that.

I can't believe what i am actually reading.. you can obviously post with semi literacy and must be intelligent enough to see this for what it is.

Of course eyeknow and you haven't argued about it cause you didn't single eyeknow out and start going on about his personal life and past history with software.

I am finding it hard to believe you are this stupid, and i don't think you are, so I will stick to the belief that you are getting off on the fighting, the thread was boring you, and you wanted to spice it up. It's the only thing that makes sense.

I went over the whole thing again from my first post from start to finish, twice, and i only ever talked about bitwig UNTIL i was pounced on by you and then the other fellow who seems to have stopped (thank you). It is really THAT simple.

Anyone with half a brain is going to be able to clearly see that, and correctly interpret what happened, so I am not concerned about it, as it is you who is making yourself look like the complete ass.

I even apologised twice about perhaps being too passionate, and tried to be more objective and veer the discussion back to the right path from my end but you didn't allow it.

Now i WILL get extremely personal.. you must be completely sociopathic, to take a discussion that was 100% on topic about a host, to be about someone's personal history, then accept zero blame for it going off tangent. Just as I said in the PM, which was deserved in every way, and just as I am saying here.

I would prefer to take this to Ableton, as they obviously ARE intelligent, and see who THEY think started this rubbish. Let's point it out to them, from my first post on, and see who they think got personal first. I didn't. It has nothing to do with me thinking anyone who disagrees with me is an imbecile, as it's all there in black and white. I talked about Bitwig, just as if it was a plugin topic and i hated the plugin (for example), i would give my opinion about the plugin. Same if i loved it. Or was meh. I would never EVER go off and say "but you are this sort of person who does this and this and your opinion doesn't count as you'll change your mind blah blah and blah". And i wouldn't criticise PEOPLE for liking it and say "go wash your ears" which happens many a time at a forum.

I can't believe Ableton even allow a topic at their forum about mass migration to another DAW (if it can be called that), that's how cool they are. I certainly wouldn't, it would have been culled first page. So i have every right, unless ABLETON say otherwise, not you or anyone else, to give my opinions on BITWIG, which is what the topic is about, however strong my opinion may be. There is no rule in the ableton forum rules against this. There are plenty however about personal conflict. So you may NOT, according to ableton, go completely off topic and turn it into something personal, no matter what you or any other member thinks otherwise. This rubbish started the moment you questioned and mocked my opinion and brought up past history of mine and cross forum history. The lowest form of forum trolling.

In fact, i will end that part simply. You are repeatedly breaking the rules, i never did. I think ableton are TOO lax. But, it's their forum.