Ableton Forum

Angstrom wrote:

simmerdown wrote:
people with lots of experience are not bitwig's target market

Is it Ableton's ?
serious question.

i think at first they were, now...idk

but a startup is going to try to generate sales to start to cover the years of unpaid r&d

bitwig seem simpler to me, more for the entry level starter...just my impression

I think when considered on a business level it's probably wise to aim where the money is.
There are many more beginner-level enthusiast 'producers' making generic loop techno/dub-step than there are people on an international tour circuit, or scoring for film.
I think Ableton's accounts dept. realised that a while back. For sure BitWig know that.

friend_kami wrote:i know right? every synthesizer has it's own midikeyboard layout, it's crazy unique.
honestly, they might have copied the interface from live, sure, but that is sort of expected from employes coming from that company. but bws has and promises a lot of thing that live doesn't have, and this is what is so appealing with it.
also what has been said about usine, plogue bidule, audio mulch and so on is a very good point as well.

Do you have the beta as well, or are you guessing? To be honest: I did not gather, "has a lot of features," from the video.

From here: http://bitwig.com/bitwig_studio.php

Does not look like more features that Ableton Live. ***

-------------) Bitwig ------- Sonar ---------- Live ------------ Cubase ---------- Logic ------------- Pro-tools

multi-track ______x___________X______________X_______________X______________X_____________X

clip launch________X__________X_____________X_______________0______________0______________0

generic tracks____X__________X______________X________________X_____________X_______________X_

clip automation ____X__________0______________0_______________0____________0___________________0

note automation_____X_________X______________0_________________X____________X_________________X_

multi-audio-clip_____X_________0______________0________________0_____________0__________________0

real-timestretch_____X________X______________X________________X_____________X________________X

world class sound devices? Totally subjective!

device nesting? From what bitwig says on the website, I am going to say, "they all have this." but I am guessing with this table, so I am not marking it down.

VST support ----> self explanatory

Meta-data browser___X____________X______________0________________X______________X___________________X

multi-documents______X__________X_____________0__________________0________________X_________________X

multi-monitor________X__________X_____________0_________________X______________X__________________X

Slick user interface? Totally subjective. Personal tastes and preference.

" Features after the 1.0, are not listed. "



The table above was created using my knowledge from memory. And the list of features on Bitwig's website. The table above is not a scientific comparison of features. The table of above may not be accurate!


I understand that people do not want to believe this, I really do, but... Bitwig, however cute and nice as it may seem, will arrive as a 1.0. With a feature set, that looks cute in the table above, but fails to trump that of Ableton Live in any way that truly matters. The DAWs that do have a bigger feature set than Ableton Live are Sonar, Cubuendo, Logic, and Pro-tools. Of the four, "super-daws," only Sonar and Cubuendo, have feature sets, that quite possibly trump Pro-Tools at this point.


I want to make it clear right here! I still have my license to Ableton Live. I have no plans on selling my License to Ableton Live. I hope to upgrade to version 9 when it arrives. The reasons I did not upgrade to v8, were mostly, "not having $150 or so, the first few weeks it arrived, and reading about crazy bugs post the arrival, and then finally spending a lot of time making my music in Renoise, and then taking a much needed break from production all together." I almost upgraded to Live 8 last week, but lately, I've really wanted the mega-feature set, of Sonar X1. I simply needed it, for the style of music I am making right now. Which happens to be POP. Which takes major audio editing ability.

As far as Bitwig maybe being more like Usine, Audiomulch, and Bidule... Great! I think I agree.

simmerdown wrote:people with lots of experience are not bitwig's target market

LMFAO.... Seriously! Why, if they are not after, "the serious," music producer; would they even bother to add support for dual screens then? Furthermore, I see a lot of beginners using per-note automation these days...





***

X = Feature is in there
0 = No its not

Angstrom wrote:I think when considered on a business level it's probably wise to aim where the money is.
There are many more beginner-level enthusiast 'producers' making generic loop techno/dub-step than there are people on an international tour circuit, or scoring for film.
I think Ableton's accounts dept. realised that a while back. For sure BitWig know that.

Probably true. Which is why... I think its pretty ridiculous, people saying, "ah, bitwig has so many more features than Live." As described by my table above.

All the big features, that Bitwig has, are like, "completely and totally unnecessary."

the table above is drunk and should be pulled over before it hurts someone.

Ableton_David wrote:

pencilrocket wrote:

Ableton_David wrote: [clears throat] you wouldn't really be asking for torrents here, would you?

These days, torrent is nothing related with pirate. As a matter of fact, the minimoog give away was done also via torrent. I assume you knew it but should ask as mod. (maybe 'torrent' word is in the alerm list?)

(correction)

No it's not that, more that you were pretty clearly asking for a torrent of a closed beta - i.e. a way to jump the queue. This forum is not the place to look for unauthorized access to any software, regardless of whether it's a commercial release or a beta.

I see what you are going to say. I thought here is not so strict about the queue of the download whether joke or not.....
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=181238&start=15
well..that was cool thread anyway.

In my experience the people who say "I NEEEED THIS BETA" are the same ones that, once they get a beta say "this thing sux, it crashed on me twice!!"

the reason being : the people who NEEEED it, do so because they think it will be the answer to all their prayers. Of course nothing in life is able to match that expectation - so whatever they receive will be a let massive down for them. Well damn if it doesn't support X, or Y or Z .. whaaat it has no bibbleboobler, Cubeogic Pro has three of them!!? etc.

Asking for a beta is like asking for your TV to be mysteriously broken by malevolent elves.

H20nly wrote:the table above is drunk and should be pulled over before it hurts someone.

so much speculation formatted as fact

i can talk out my ass with fewer words

dual screen = pro + some eyerolling = blowhard

simmerdown wrote:so much speculation formatted as fact

i can talk out my ass with fewer words

dual screen = pro + some eyerolling = blowhard

resort to personal attacks, cause you have no logical argument.

so speculation = logic now? keep going

As I've already stated IMO Bitwig Studio doesn't have to have more features than Live etc. if it has a compelling workflow.
Studio One has been able to carve out a niche for itself based on this.

I also think it's level of expectation among DAW users is so high that there's no way they could match it with reality unless they sent a high class model who does escort work on the side over to each potential customers house to perform fellatio as an introduction to the program.

And they'd still be pissy because the escort didn't show them how to map the transport to the APC40...

are they really going to do that?

Don't ask me, I only use 1 monitor.