Ableton Forum

there is united states midi files and european. dont forget. us midi files are always sound. european midi is music.

@myrnova, I apologise for calling you a troll (you were called a lot worse in this thread btw). I believe that you may not be intentionally trolling, but IMO your rants are quite clearly delusional.

I am doubtful for your mental well being at this stage. I'm not trying to insult you; I am indifferent to you at this stage except that I know to skim over your posts.

This year I have seen two mental health professionals and I can strongly recommend it. Just throwing it out there. I have no idea of your musical, political, ethnic, social, geographical etc background - I know absolutely nothing about you except your output on this forum. If that represents your true opinions etc you may need professional help.

Again I stress that I am not trying to be insulting, just my observation.

stringtapper wrote:The thing about modern music is that the traditional conception of a "note" doesn't really apply these days.

We have the ability to sculpt things that some call "sound objects" that defy the old conceptions of a "note" and are more akin to the concept of sculpture wherein an "object" (sound) can be modified to the point of being indistinguishable from the original sound that we started with.

This makes traditional music theory useless and means that we have to come up with an entirely new way of codifying our methods.

Discuss.

There must be a minimum of "pattern" in the sound in order to be recognized as music. This minimum is subjective. By subjective in this context i mean: depends on the training and development of the listener. Some will only accept muzak as music, others will get at the level of understanding a stockhausen.

If the only variable is timbre, but the composer succeeds to get some patterns across only by changing the timbre, then for me it could be music.

But I dont care so much about what is called music or what is not called music.

rozling wrote:@myrnova, I apologise for calling you a troll (you were called a lot worse in this thread btw). I believe that you may not be intentionally trolling, but IMO your rants are quite clearly delusional.

I am doubtful for your mental well being at this stage. I'm not trying to insult you; I am indifferent to you at this stage except that I know to skim over your posts.

This year I have seen two mental health professionals and I can strongly recommend it. Just throwing it out there. I have no idea of your musical, political, ethnic, social, geographical etc background - I know absolutely nothing about you except your output on this forum. If that represents your true opinions etc you may need professional help.

Again I stress that I am not trying to be insulting, just my observation.

Thank you for your apologizes, very rare here. Regarding my health, thanks for your kind help. For the rest:

(1) my music here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IdZ3Zp9gvc
(2) my audio products here: http://www.mheo.onweb.it/
(3) anarchist
(4) italian
(5) educator

So Tapper I'm still interested if anything I mentioned piques any interest to your OP, though I'm more interested in the realtime creation than the sound design, you can still apply the cross-synthesis/spectral-blending to something like the beatjazz technology, in fact that could be a good example because you could perform the crossing/blending on the spot, having more interesting parameters to work with compared to just relatively primitive cross-fading.

myrnova wrote:(1) my music here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IdZ3Zp9gvc

well done man. not my style or genre, but well done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jWYcWxi-hc

myrnova wrote:

docprosper wrote:Therefor if a European disagrees with you he/she is a closet American? Let me entertain for a moment what I think is a gross generalization on your part (Europe vs. US music theory) and ask a few follow up questions:
-What are the sources you used to draw this conclusion?
-How come no Europeans on this forum are backing you up?

Again, all this is very OT and just proves I am right when I think you are not interested in discussing music at all. You are here because you want me to tell you what I think about U.S. war policy. You are derailing the thread, which is not about U.S. policy and/or my opinions about U.S. war crimes (exposed in other threads). Your aim is: "I let you see Myrnova is generalizing about U.S. so the mod can finally ban him". Easy, because both 90% of users here are from U.S. and the moderators too.

Very embarassing

No, I truly have no interest in discussing US foreign policy with you. On the contrary, the question I posit is no more OT than ALL your posts on this thread as it's a direct question related to your basic argument. Do you have any sources regarding your music/audio theories as they pertain to Europe & America or did you come up with all this yourself? I am truly curious as you seem to have a lot to say on this regard but I haven't seen any references, apart from the old 9V thread that is.

And, for the record, I did try to engage you (as 9V) positively in THAT thread but was pretty much ignored. Of course, my assertion at that time was rather sophmoric so I can't fault you for that.

And, my goal in this thread was not to get you banned. Like you've stated before, we can ignore you if we want to.
<cowers after using "we" again>

If there are reference materials I would happily peruse them, as I'm trying to get smarter on music theory myself and am eager to understand differing opinions on theory matters. I would argue that, if you don't have references or any sources of substance to back up your claim that perhaps the proper way to enter someone else's thread is not to barge in demanding that YOUR gospel truth be obeyed at all costs, even to the extent of changing a thread title for chrissakes. Food for thought and peace out.

rote fahne wrote:

myrnova wrote:(1) my music here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IdZ3Zp9gvc

well done man. not my style or genre, but well done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jWYcWxi-hc

Sorry, but I guess you are barking up the wrong tree

Look here (a better place) http://www.coldmeat.se/catalogue/cruelmoon/bc007.html

so, if a person is born in the United States... and then moves to Europe in their early childhood... and then moves to Italy just before they become a teenager... what will there stance on this argument be?

what if someone is born in Italy, moves to Europe and then ends up in the United States as a pre-teen; will they have the opposite opinion?

H20nly wrote:so, if a person is born in the United States... and then moves to Europe in their early childhood... and then moves to Italy just before they become a teenager... what will there stance on this argument be?

what if someone is born in Italy, moves to Europe and then ends up in the United States as a pre-teen; will they have the opposite opinion?

in my opinion it is just a question of cultural influence. U.S.A influence the rest of the world, (in my opinion: "impose their policy"), not only politically (wars), but even culturally, being it a modern "empire". For instance, many european kids who play with daws and sequencers don't even know the difference between music and sound, for them it is all "music" because "it all sounds as music". Again, it is just a different concept. Maybe nowadays the "american concept" ("music" as "a phisical phenomenon") is more common than the traditional one ("european": music as "a human activity which works even without sound"). This because of samples, loops, sound effects, sound engineering in studios, electronic instruments and samplers etc. I guess? (for instance, nowadays 70-80% of movie soundratcks are only effects, in america called "music", here just "sound effects").

80-90% of laser sounds are deeply offended.

H20nly wrote:so, if a person is born in the United States... and then moves to Europe in their early childhood... and then moves to Italy just before they become a teenager... what will there stance on this argument be?

what if someone is born in Italy, moves to Europe and then ends up in the United States as a pre-teen; will they have the opposite opinion?

if the person born in the us is a black or a latino chances are little he/she will move to europe in their early childhood.

if the person is born in africa and moves to italy chances are little too that he/she will arrive.

oh superman laurie anderson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VIqA3i2zQw

you talk about "persons", as if was something important for a listener to understand "what is music" (subjective). I am talking of musicians, of course (objective), not about a person listening to music.

Now, one can even believe his bird in the cage is playing "music". If you are a (traditional) musician you know the difference between birds and organized sounds in a code ("music"). Americans think it is music, because it is however "sound". Europeans call them "sounds".

P.S. "bird" is an allegory for "musique concrete"

myrnova wrote:you talk about "persons", as if was something important for a listener to understand "what is music" (subjective). I am talking of musicians, of course (objective), not about a person listening to music.

Now, one can even believe his bird in the cage is playing "music". If you are a musician you know the difference between birds and organized sounds in a code ("music"). Americans think it is music, because it is however "sound". Europeans call them "sounds".

if there is no listener there is no music.