6 better be a rock !!!!

[leisuremuffin]

I hope they spend as much time beta testing live 6 in public, as it took to go from live5 release to live 5.03 at a -minimum-....

I must say I'm happy with the time they have spent beta testing 5.2 , I get a sense that all the complaints made by the irate users made a difference. Which is kind of ironic, because if the ableton apologists got their way these irate people would have ceased 'whining' long before 5.03 even surfaced.

keep those honest complaints coming, they make a difference!

Hey man, I'm not against people complaining, i'm against these vague and inaccurate rants that we see so many of.


I don't think that all of the threads that are just saying "god, live 5 is a buggy, unreliable piece of shit," help anything except to spread a bunch of misconceptions so that when a user has audio dropouts for instance, instead of asking for help from ableton to fix their problem which is most likely a fixable setup problem they just go and post another "fuck 5" post.

I don't want anybody to stop complaining and brining up issues. I just want them to be specific about what they are talking about and for them to genuinly look for help before jujst spouting off yet another pointles live bashing thread.

I don't think those threads are why ableton are improving their software.



.lm.

[HD1]

granted, my point is that ableton seem to be taking more time publicly beta testing a new release, rather then selling it first and ironing out problems after.....which was my experience with live5 unfortunately

[sweetjesus]

granted, my point is that ableton seem to be taking more time publicly beta testing a new release, rather then selling it first and ironing out problems after.....which was my experience with live5 unfortunately

out of 5 versions, only once has the product been of a lesser quality overall than its previous history dictates.

its rather obvious that the course of action taken with the 5.2 update is a reflection of ableton's concious awareness to the matter.

i'm on 5.0.3 and i have to admit since i got rid of my hyperthreading bug, live is as solid as a rock.. in fact i heard that magma looks at Live to get a clue about how to become solid.

[knotkranky]

Anyone satisfied with Live 5 should not participate in this thread. I'm glad you're happy. Really.

So,

Can we agree that different Live users put different power demands on Live?

Can we agree that a simple Live user does not know what a complicated Live user is, and should not treat their positive experience as the last word?

Does 5's advertised DAW feature set and marketing misrepresent it's abilities?

Can we agree the proponents of this thread are not spreading misconceptions, are within reasonable program expectations and are helpful to all?

Can we agree that Knotkranky thinks he's De Niro from Brazil?


And now for some incendiary remarks.

I agree and feel the hard work and innovations the Ableton employees have put together for us as stated a little earlier. Thank you so much. My simple complaint is to the Abe's top brass who meet around conference table #1 and discuss how they manage their long view progress timeline and what makes a release ready. My entire beef is with them and only them. Bless you coders and staff. I mean, if you get a sub-standard meal, you still have to bitch to the waitress and that's truly unfortunate. So, do you honestly think that top management was surprised at 5's problems? My friends, they simply released it as it was, because they had obligations that were "above" them and then relied on us fine people to bare through it all and hedge the difference. They knew it wasn't ready. Hell, top brass made a ton of bottom line and we couldn't even return the app! It's not good that this liability has been so far removed from the top. I miss this aspect of "returnable" hardware. It scares manufacturers into making it right before shipping. Don't allow their existence and responsibilities to go unchecked. Anyway, they can bare through this little users uncomfortable rant if it ever gets to them. I apologize to you people for being so aggressive with this, but not to top brass. I'm just wondering if the top brass meetings for the 6 release has dialogue like; "Well we nailed it this time" and not, "We should increase the bug staff". The separation between Abe's "corporate" and this forum is by design. This is not an Ableton forum, this is a "users" forum. Wouldn't it be cool if this thread was made issue at one or more of their top meetings for whatever reason? Live is not "their" program, it is "your" program. If you think this thread is useful, jump on. If you think this thread is terrible, jump off and start a "don't protest" thread. If your happy with Live, you're not asking for much and thats a nice position to be in. If you are unhappy, do what you must. Remember, no real harm will come from this, just positive action.

I don't care so much about 5 right now. I do care about 6 or 6.0.1 at least, and I hope to light a match under a rear and maybe be responsible for adding some thought before this release. Dreamer right? Don't worry fellas, i'm starting to run out of steam on this anyway. Oh yeah, I love Live.

[HD1]

granted, my point is that ableton seem to be taking more time publicly beta testing a new release, rather then selling it first and ironing out problems after.....which was my experience with live5 unfortunately

out of 5 versions, only once has the product been of a lesser quality overall than its previous history dictates.

its rather obvious that the course of action taken with the 5.2 update is a reflection of ableton's concious awareness to the matter.

i'm on 5.0.3 and i have to admit since i got rid of my hyperthreading bug, live is as solid as a rock.. in fact i heard that magma looks at Live to get a clue about how to become solid.

yes, and it was not the ableton apologists who made this obvious...all they did for ableton as a whole was tell people with real problems to stop whining, or buy a new computer......and it was not until 5.03 was released that some serious issues were addressed (uneven loops, an -integral- function of live as it is advertised) and 5.03 introduced audio glitches and pops for me, not cpu related by the way.


i dont care if you bought live 1 , live 5 is a product and piece of software like any other, and someone who buys it (regardless of their previous ableton experience) can expect to receive the product they bought -as advertised- ....... a -complete- solution it wasnt....and -tight- midi it did not have, and 'on the fly' recording it could not achieve, plain and simple......


seems to me ableton are spending more time beta testing new releases, this is something that has come about from complaining not from endless flattery

[knotkranky]

seems to me ableton are spending more time beta testing new releases, this is something that has come about from complaining not from endless flattery

Cheers

[HD1]

seems to me ableton are spending more time beta testing new releases, this is something that has come about from complaining not from endless flattery

Cheers

uh-oh...you didnt just agree with me did you ?

watch out for the back lash.

[knotkranky]

seems to me ableton are spending more time beta testing new releases, this is something that has come about from complaining not from endless flattery

Cheers

uh-oh...you didnt just agree with me did you ?

watch out for the back lash.

Just the complaining and the "not from endless flattery" part. Thanx

[leisuremuffin]

Can we agree that different Live users put different power demands on Live?

yes.

Can we agree that a simple Live user does not know what a complicated Live user is, and should not treat their positive experience as the last word?

Stop being so elitist already.

Does 5's advertised DAW feature set and marketing misrepresent it's abilities?

I dunno. I might partially give you this one. It does do everthing it says it does. But it's so cpu heavy that i couldn't do your idea of 32+ tracks with plugins on my puny g4 laptop. I don't see a track count listed anywhere in its features, but i do see this statement "Unlimited 32-bit/192 kHz multitrack hard disk recording". I don't even know what unlimited is supposed to refer to in that case, and frankly that's impossible on any system, you will be limited at some point by eithr cpu or disk speed.

Can we agree the proponents of this thread are not spreading misconceptions, are within reasonable program expectations and are helpful to all?

Nope, i'm sorry, i can't agree with you, the proponent of this thread. Simply because your claim is that live is unreliable and unstable. That is a misconception. If you are experiencing "glitching" or dropouts under a regular cpu load, something is wrong with your system, and you need to talk to ableton support to sort it out. Those sorts of things should not start happening until you've gone past 75% cpu usage (or have a slow HD, which we've established you do not).


Ok, onto your supposedly incendiary remarks.

First of all, the idea that there is a meeting of shadowy figures at some oak board room table is absolutly ridiculous. We're talking about a pretty small and freindly company. Maybe they feel some pressure from avid, since they're partnered in some way, but to think of some ableton execs laughing while lighting cigars with hundred dollar bills they made from intentionally shoddy software is crazy. Go look at the ableton website and look under people. Which of the less than 2 dozen people are the ones you have "beef" with?

The reason i'm posting in this thread isn't because i don't want people to protest.

here, read this again:

Hey man, I'm not against people complaining, i'm against these vague and inaccurate rants that we see so many of.


I don't think that all of the threads that are just saying "god, live 5 is a buggy, unreliable piece of shit," help anything except to spread a bunch of misconceptions so that when a user has audio dropouts for instance, instead of asking for help from ableton to fix their problem which is most likely a fixable setup problem they just go and post another "fuck 5" post.

I don't want anybody to stop complaining and brining up issues. I just want them to be specific about what they are talking about and for them to genuinly look for help before jujst spouting off yet another pointles live bashing thread.

I don't think those threads are why ableton are improving their software.

.lm.

[leisuremuffin]

I'm sorry, i just checked the people page and they're up to 40 something people now. Still, not the kind of cold faceless corporation you're making it out to be. I can pretty much tell you for certain that there is not one single person in the Live organization who has sat at a board room and said, "guys, we need to turn a bigger profit at the expense of quality, let's do a real rush job on live 5." I thnk the guys running the ship think of live as their baby first and as a product second. They want it to be as great as we do.


.lm.

[HD1]

[knotkranky]

I thnk the guys running the ship think of live as their baby first and as a product second. .lm.

Thank you.



Ok, so what we have are a bunch of peoples faces and names without titles or positions, even some grapes.

Who is the CEO, CFO and COO of Ableton? Do you know? Do tell.

[HD1]

live ceased to be anyone's baby once a pricetag was put on it, then it became a product.

I didnt realise someone put a shotgun to robert henke's head and forced him to commercialise his vision

[knotkranky]

live ceased to be anyone's baby once a pricetag was put on it, then it became a product.

I didnt realise someone put a shotgun to robert henke's head and forced him to commercialise his vision

And now he's a bunch of grapes and we're left holding our pee pee's

[23]

Live is great, but it still does leave some things to be desired.

For one, Live's MIDI implementation, though horrible by no means, still could use some help. I'm not expecting Ableton to push for making Live some sort of Logic or SX, but hopefully they can pump up the MIDI implementation some.

For one, anyone happen to have a synth that happens to throw out NRPN values? Try recording those into Live....try editing those in Live? I think you'll find you hit a brick wall in both cases.

In regard to editing continous MIDI controller data or even typical envelope information in samples, a line tool would be great!

Multi-timbral capable MIDI clips would be excellent!? Currently we get forced to have things streamlined to one MIDI channel (though we can take in from many), why can't a clip contain data being fed amongst varying MIDI channels? For those that may not see the use of this, say a drum line is composed utilizing different drum modules....rather than having to spread them out amongst tracks, one track could be used to for all the modules; further a clip could be used to send information for any number of the modules pertaining to that track.

Have some sort of display allowing the user to see how much RAM Live currently needs and is using to work effectively (allowing users to gain warning as to when they are about to enter into memory swapping territory).

Now maybe there is a way to do this that I just haven't caught, but Live can export audio, why can't it export MIDI (in regard to arrangement view or clips in session view). Further, rather than having to deal with resampling, how bout a means of having Live develop a new entirely new sample in Session view that is based upon how the envelopes, time stretches, etc. within a clip are set, this new sample can then replace the originala sample. Essientially giving the user the option of if they want to take up more drive/disk space or if they want to simply take up more CPU for the automation being conducted. As is, from what I understand, this is practically what's being done during track freezes......why not give us the ability to not freeze, and just simply create entirely new replacement samples for what we have in the clip without going through a formal resampling process.

MIDI program changes......lets get it so that they can occur at any given time within a clip.

Keystroke/MIDI assignments.....you get to dealing with large Live sets, and well, you can eventually start running out of keys or various MIDI actions to use to trigger scenes or clips. How bout providing a means by which large amounts of key/MIDI assignments can be reassigned quickly, on the go, while things are playing. For example, say someone has a full octave on a keyboard with each key pertaining to a given scene. The full amount of scenes go beyond this designated octave though. Perhaps a means could be implemented where the range group of keys that do pertain to scenes can be considered part of a group, and a command could be implemented where by that entire group could be kept in order but moved down to the next until the first key of the group is now located at what would have been the first unassigned scene (if this causes some keys to no longer be active within the set, so be it). Like wise the group could be moved back up in the same manner.

The ability to tell live to clear it's undo history quickly and efficiently. Again, just as a means of being able to help manage RAM allocation. Have a super large Live set, you know memory swapping is going to eventually become a problem, well then before it becomes a problem, wipe out a bunch of samples you know you will know longer be using, clear the undo history, and Live now has access to that much more RAM.

In any regard, just my two cents on some of the things that I think could be implemented in a future version(s) of Live.

-Al