Alright, I'm with you. Bring on the MIDI sequencing...

[Guest]

........ just to reinforce - Leave out the editing features, just the ability to drop standard MIDI files onto a slot would be fine......

cheers
Paddy

that sounds like a pretty good compromise

[bsmith]

Allright, you guys- i'll keep it to the point, as I might just adding my voice to the crowd. Audio sucks. If I don't have total tweakage control over my instrument (not a recording, an INSTRUMENT), then I say throw it to the wayside. The fact that Live doesn't support midi is the one and only thing that keeps me from getting this otherwise killer program. I would go as far as to say that Live, in fact, SUCKS because it doesn't sequence midi. Of course, that's just my opinion, but there's a growing number of us who are totally sick of wanking with set-in-stone audio files, and want to freaking play music already. In fact, I can't think of any electronic musician that plays live sets using exclusively audio recordings, excluding turntablists.

Imagine this:
-a laptop
-a fader box
-an MPD-16 midi controller (a big box 'o buttons) (or a whole bunch of 'em, DJ Shadow-style!)
-a couple of midi keyboards
-a decent midi hardware interface
-an audio interface with hella outputs
-a mixer
-external hardware synths and effects
-a bunch of VSTi's and/or rewire-compatible virtual instruments
-a future version of live that plays midi loops, and supports VSTi and Rewire

That's a lot of gear, but check it out: sequence the VSTi's (including samplers, you audio jackasses) using midi loops accessible as live clips, or use rewire to access Reason devices. Tweak the softsynths etc. in real time using the faderbox, or set it up to sequence racked hardsynths, and knob-twiddle those. Do solos on a midi keyboard (I'm a keyboardist, but you can use midi guitar or wind controllers if't please you). Select patterns ar add fills or change patterns in real time on a soft drum machine using the MPD, or rig it up to a hard drum machine, trigger the main patterns on live, and add fills using the hardware. Use an MPD or small midi keyboard to trigger samples from a VSTi sampler. Next step, the mixer. Send your soft instruments to the mixer via seperate outputs from your audio interface. Connect your hard gear (all controlled by live via midi) to the mixer as well, and add in some hard AUX effects while you're at it (tweakable on the rack!) Mix and crossfade between tracks in real time on the mixer. If you're playing with other live instruments, you should probably also add an external midi timepiece so's you can keep up. This is a totally kick-ass setup, and it's real and used by my friend Leif. Leif, however, is a genius, and had to write his own live software in order to make this happen. Also, he doesn't use VSTi's- he programs all his stuff on MAX. I am not a genus. I want to be able to do this without having to write my own goddamn software!!

Flash forwards 10 years to future land. Touchscreen moniters have become both awesome and dirt cheap. Can you imagine using Live in a touchscreen environment? WITH MIDI??? I think i'm about to poke someone's eye out just thinking about it!

Don't like synths, samplers, or drum machines? You only want to manipulate and sequence the sounds of "real" instruments? Newsflash: you're an electronic musician. If you want real intrument sounds, go out and make some friends with people who can play 'em. In fact, the whole point of Live is to bring electronic musicianship into the live environment. Many people think that Live shouldn't include midi so that it can retain it's purity. Well, I'm a purist too, one who thinks that the realm of "real" instruments should be left to those that can play 'em, ESPECIALLY in a live situation. In fact, in all forms of music, from jazz, to electronic, to indy rock, to hardcore, to hip-hop, to ambient, the blending of electronic instruments and traditional instruments is becoming a huge. Of equal importance is the fact that midi devices and interfaces are becomeing more and more sophisticated, and are becoming more and more integratable into the live environment. We're on the freaking brink, man. The brink of total integration between traditional and electronic musicianship, both live and in the studio. You 50-year-old mini moog mulletheads need to wake the hell up. And for Live to call its self Live, but not to include midi, the lynchpin of this type of musical integration, is in my opinion, total blasphemy.

If you just want to wank with pre-recorded loops and samples, be my guest, but learn to fuckin' spin!!! If someone brought a laptop to a rave, causing no end of trouble to the poor sound guy who's probably only used to amping tables, then only to wank on audio loops, they would totally get thier ass kicked! By me!! On the other hand, noone commands more respect than the true live DJ, the one who forsakes the wheels of steel in favor of a towering rack of homegrown hardware to pump out the jams. True electronic musicianship is using synths, sequencers, drum machines, samplers, vocoders, and other crazy-ass electronic effects, and is an ecclectic enough field to encompass everyone from the ambient soundscapist, elegantly augmenting a live jazz trio, to the superstar DJ, pumping out the phatty killer-robots-on-extacy tracks that make crowds move from 8PM to 8AM! And ALL of those things require midi, dammit!!

Live's potential is bursting at the seams, but it still doesn't turn my computer into the integrated, playable instrument that it could be if Live could just freaking sequence. However, I totally understand the complexity of adding such features, and the tax on the CPU. The best idea would be for ableton to come out with a new program (LIVEmidi?) devoted exclusively to live midi sequencing, based on the same great interface as LIVE. That way, auido freaks and midi freaks alike wouldn't have to lock horns, and CPU would flow like digital wine. So what it really comes down to is WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE DEVELOP A DECENT LIVE MIDI SEQUENCING PROGRAM???

[Alex Reynolds]

So what it really comes down to is WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE DEVELOP A DECENT LIVE MIDI SEQUENCING PROGRAM???

Erm, Numerology?

-- http://www.five12.com/

-Alex

[Guest]

oh yeah, sorry, i got caught up in the moment and didn't read page 6

[Guest]

So what it really comes down to is WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE DEVELOP A DECENT LIVE MIDI SEQUENCING PROGRAM???

Erm, Numerology?

-- http://www.five12.com/

-Alex

Erm, MAC OSX only??

[The Hulk]

I do all my synth work in Numerology now. Non-linear pattern sequencing can't be beat! Rumor has it that Rewire is on the way for Numorology too however Running Live and Numerology simultaneously is nearly too much for a machine to take. but keep in mind a this program is still in very early stages and has some really incredible potential for growth.

[Alex Reynolds]

Erm, MAC OSX only??

So switch already. Do I have to think of everything for you?

Jeez...

-Alex

[Guest]

Erm, MAC OSX only??

So switch already. Do I have to think of everything for you?

Jeez...

-Alex

douchebag

[Guest]

Live's potential is bursting at the seams, but it still doesn't turn my computer into the integrated, playable instrument that it could be if Live could just freaking sequence. However, I totally understand the complexity of adding such features, and the tax on the CPU. The best idea would be for ableton to come out with a new program (LIVEmidi?) devoted exclusively to live midi sequencing, based on the same great interface as LIVE. That way, auido freaks and midi freaks alike wouldn't have to lock horns, and CPU would flow like digital wine. So what it really comes down to is WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE DEVELOP A DECENT LIVE MIDI SEQUENCING PROGRAM???

have you actually used midi controllers with live? i think you should explore it further, but then most of that rant was complete rubbish so you obviously don't look into things that much.

Assign as many controllers as you can to live - including clips to the whole keyboard on diff midi channels, it's a wicked sampler

and it works pretty damn well with tracktion - (can you afford $80?)

what makes you think people using live don't play musical instruments?

if you're gonna come out with stupid rants like that, do your research - i'd be interested if you'd bothered to use it to it's potential, but you obviously haven't

[msascha]

For all I care it would be great if Live! could host VSTi which I than could trigger with my external sequenzers and record the resulting audio to loops in Live!

[qminusi]

Hello

I'd like to have one midi keyboard (a controller as Korgs microKONTROL), one midi foot pedal and one notebook on stage. Live on midi channel 1 (or any other) and other VST Instruments or rewire applications on other midi channels each to switch easely.

Live does not need a midi sequencer or a midi player, Reason for example does this job very well. Live needs a possibility to play VST instruments straight in it's environment similar as it works with Plogue Bidule, just without the whole overhead and instability . Same as I play my Guitar and record it, I'd like to play a VST-Synth with Guitar-to-midi (or the keyboard whatever) and record it straight into a clip.

With e.g. a microKONTROL you can set the midi channels separately for each encoder, slider, the joystick or pad groups and configure different sets for each VST or Rewire program. Therefore it might be useful to have the possibility to set a prefered midi channel in the options as well.

Please keep Live reasonable and usable for live situations on stage.

Sincerely
Karl

[qminusi]

[quote="bsmith"]Audio sucks. If I don't have total tweakage control over my instrument (not a recording, an INSTRUMENT), then I say throw it to the wayside. The fact that Live doesn't support midi is the one and only thing that keeps me from getting this otherwise killer program. [/quote]

Hello

Live used to be a audio sequencer. It looks to me that you do not play an instrument (such as keyboard, guitar, turntables or a sax) properly and you don't trust your abilities to play Live on stage. Surely the time warping and transpose functions are not as powerful as you would have a midi track and time to fix it but Live is an audio program for life performing and therefore the functions are just amazing. And it's the best you can get on the market. A live audio sequencer and a sampler. Read the splash sceen when you start Live.

If you want to play your stuff note by note using midi files then use a midi sequencer or Rebirth in your studio instead, take as many time you need to fix the errors, render your corrected stuff, install a CD player or Cubase on stage, start it, and have beer while listening . Or create audio files for using it in Live and read the manual.

Or exercise on your instruments and get the ability to play and record live into Live. All your fine hardware does not work if you can't play your instruments and you don't know what Live is all about. Or the other side: You don't need much if you can play your instrument.

Sincerely
Karl

[bigbadotis]

I like both the qminusi posts. My personal opinion is that the idea of adding MIDI sequencing capabilities is getting away from the original point of Live, and would take away from the elegance of it.

But being able to host VSTis would be a great feature to add. No MIDI needed beyond the ability to route it to the VSTi. The only thing that gets recorded is the audio the VSTi puts out, NOT THE MIDI GOING TO IT.

[Gluglu]

BIG ditto!!! With their own MIDI port preferably in preferences as with for controllers. 16 channels to route any which way will do for starters. This is the way forward. Extending the track input menu with available VSTi's and we're home free!

I like both the qminusi posts. My personal opinion is that the idea of adding MIDI sequencing capabilities is getting away from the original point of Live, and would take away from the elegance of it.

But being able to host VSTis would be a great feature to add. No MIDI needed beyond the ability to route it to the VSTi. The only thing that gets recorded is the audio the VSTi puts out, NOT THE MIDI GOING TO IT.

[Guest]

But being able to host VSTis would be a great feature to add. No MIDI needed beyond the ability to route it to the VSTi. The only thing that gets recorded is the audio the VSTi puts out, NOT THE MIDI GOING TO IT.

I think abes should look at the way tracktion handles midi - a little icon representing your midi input that you drag up the left side of the arrange tracks then 'stick' it to the track you want.

So if, for example you wanted to use reaktor, load it on a track as FX (which you can do already) then drag the icon to that track to input your midi directly into reaktor - brilliant and simple.

But I still think the absolute best solution would be to allow live to take inputs while in rewire slave mode - i would be completely happy with slaving live to tracktion if only i could still record straight into live