MB, count me as one of the ones who likes to read your posts.
It takes me out of myself and gives a peek into a world and situation literally thousands of miles from my comfy cubicle and commute to work...
I haven't read all the flamage in this thread, and perhaps a blog format might be better for MB's displatches, but what gets me into the thread and supporting it is one of the things that happens on the internet called "accumulated good will". MB has posted so many useful, helpful and interesting things over the years, that in my mind his "digg factor" is a lot higher than someone such as -- well, someone who has little or nothing to contribute except complaints and flames.
So, MB, stay safe and productive and once you get back from there you should never have to buy your own drinks again!
r.
Updates from Afghanistan
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Meef Chaloin
- Posts: 2164
- Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:09 pm
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chrysalis33rpm
- Posts: 1020
- Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 9:56 pm
- Location: San Francisco
pixelbox wrote:PRIME FUCKING EXAMPLE OF YOU FUCKING BRATS JUST JUMPING ON WHATEVER BANDWAGON SEEMS THE COOLEST! You fucking turd! How can you cry out against someone, and basically compare them to a crazy power mad tyrant when you have ZERO facts?chrysalis33rpm wrote:I don't. Fill me in, in broad strokes.Tone Deft wrote: do you know the history of afghanistan over the last 50 years?
GROW THE FUCK UP YOU SPOILED PIECE OF SHIT!
Man! I typically don't get this crazy on a forum, but fuck you pissed me off! Ignorant little shit.
Huh? Calm down, pixel...I was just asking for some info on a subject I knew little about...now I am better informed...not really sure why you got SO BENT.
Yeah, I'm familiar with 'em. But I'm a reasonably regular poster here, so I figured I would contribute a rather unique experience to my own community.
There's a network of milbloggers too, but I don't post often enough (or have an interesting enough job) to make it worthwhile.
But to all others with kind comments, thanks, it's appreciated.
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chrysalis33rpm
- Posts: 1020
- Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 9:56 pm
- Location: San Francisco
No worries about that; I'm a desk rat. I rarely if ever head outside the wire. We do get the occasional rocket attack though, but it's no big deal. I don't think they've hit anything of value, and nobody's been killed by a rocket on camp (yet).dango wrote:watch out for that roadside bomb action. it must be freaky driving around with those things out there
This is the first Remembrance Day I’ve spent deployed. When I was in Bosnia in 2000, I took vacation from theatre to coincide with November 11th, and visited my home town. But this year, I was in Kandahar Afghanistan. We gathered outside our headquarters, near a cenotaph erected to all of our comrades who fell in Afghanistan, and received the families of some of the guys who got killed recently.
There were also representatives of the RCMP, Government of Canada, and the government of Afghanistan. But most importantly, a platoon of Afghan National Army (ANA) guys, along with some senior commanders showed up.
The service was predominantly in English and French; only for certain points, did they offer a translation into Dari or Pashtu (I’m not sure which one it was, I assume Pashtu but I’m not certain). They had prayers for the fallen, given by one of our Padres, and translated into Pashtu.
Personally, I thought it was a nice gesture to invite the Afghans, but it was an opportunity missed. We spent the entire ceremony honouring the Canadians who fell in combat, but only mentioned in passing the Afghan soldiers who died. This was a mistake.
I can say without a doubt in my mind that the ANA pays a steeper price in blood than anybody else in theatre (other than the Taliban of course). Some of their senior officers and NCOs fought the Soviets, and those that were too young (which would have been under 14 at the time) still fought in the civil war before the Taliban came to power… Others still fought the Taliban throughout their regime.
The Operations and Mentoring Liaison Team (OMLT) are here teaching the ANA. They aren’t here teaching these guys how to kill; honestly, they have more experience at it than we do. Nor are we here to teach them how to cope with losses; they’ve done more dying than we ever will here in theatre. We’re here to teach them discipline, professionalism, restraint, administration, intelligence and logistics. And from what I saw, they’re learning especially well.
But, the fact remains that they’ve been fighting here for longer than we have, have lost more men than we have (or will), and will be protecting the Afghan people long after we’re gone. Thus, it was rather embarrassing to listen to our padres drone on about Canadian sacrifice, while in the corner of my eye I could see men who had lost far more friends and family in battle, who have breathed more of the bitter stink of war than us.
We laid 10 wreaths in our ceremony; the families of a number of dead Canadians laid some, as did some senior Canadian officers, the Kandahar Chief of Police, an ANA Brigade Commander, and the provincial Governor of Kandahar. What were these men thinking about when they were planting wreaths for dead Canadians, while behind them in the parade were the battle weary Afghan soldiers, clad in their dark green forest camouflage uniforms and their old, rattling AK-47s? What did they think of us, standing there with our desert camouflage and our high-tech rifles with optical scopes? What did they think, knowing that some of our force was on their "HLTA", a paid vacation to Canada, Thailand, Europe, or any other locale? What did they think, knowing that our risk and hardship bonuses alone could probably outfit an entire ANA battalion with decent uniforms and effective body-armour? What do their soldiers think when they arrived for the ceremony in the back of pickup trucks, driving past our LAV-IIIs and Nayala mine-proof armoured vehicles?
I don’t mean to insinuate that they don’t appreciate the contribution of Canadians; they certainly do. But we get so wrapped up in ourselves, that we forget their contribution, which I would argue is easily an order of magnitude greater than our own in terms of blood. Canadians at home are slowly becoming more cognizant of our own sacrifices, but remain woefully ignorant of the Afghans’.
Not only that, but I know that my family is safe while I am here in Afghanistan. The same cannot be said of an ANA soldier, or Afghan National Police officer. What do the Taliban do to families of “collaborators” when they can find them? Before Canadians deploy, we have to visit a social worker to ensure that our personal lives are stable, so that issues or problems at home won’t distract us when in combat. The Afghan National Army has no such luxury.
I understand that November 11th is Remembrance Day for Canadians; it's our day, and perhaps the Afghans have their own day to remember their losses. But I think that having invited them to participate in our ceremonies, we should have given more credit to them. In the end, I appreciate that they were truly gracious and professional in the face of our oversight, sharing our ceremony with us in dignity. They visibly honoured our commitment and sacrifice, while silently reflecting on their own. These guys impress me more and more each day.
There were also representatives of the RCMP, Government of Canada, and the government of Afghanistan. But most importantly, a platoon of Afghan National Army (ANA) guys, along with some senior commanders showed up.
The service was predominantly in English and French; only for certain points, did they offer a translation into Dari or Pashtu (I’m not sure which one it was, I assume Pashtu but I’m not certain). They had prayers for the fallen, given by one of our Padres, and translated into Pashtu.
Personally, I thought it was a nice gesture to invite the Afghans, but it was an opportunity missed. We spent the entire ceremony honouring the Canadians who fell in combat, but only mentioned in passing the Afghan soldiers who died. This was a mistake.
I can say without a doubt in my mind that the ANA pays a steeper price in blood than anybody else in theatre (other than the Taliban of course). Some of their senior officers and NCOs fought the Soviets, and those that were too young (which would have been under 14 at the time) still fought in the civil war before the Taliban came to power… Others still fought the Taliban throughout their regime.
The Operations and Mentoring Liaison Team (OMLT) are here teaching the ANA. They aren’t here teaching these guys how to kill; honestly, they have more experience at it than we do. Nor are we here to teach them how to cope with losses; they’ve done more dying than we ever will here in theatre. We’re here to teach them discipline, professionalism, restraint, administration, intelligence and logistics. And from what I saw, they’re learning especially well.
But, the fact remains that they’ve been fighting here for longer than we have, have lost more men than we have (or will), and will be protecting the Afghan people long after we’re gone. Thus, it was rather embarrassing to listen to our padres drone on about Canadian sacrifice, while in the corner of my eye I could see men who had lost far more friends and family in battle, who have breathed more of the bitter stink of war than us.
We laid 10 wreaths in our ceremony; the families of a number of dead Canadians laid some, as did some senior Canadian officers, the Kandahar Chief of Police, an ANA Brigade Commander, and the provincial Governor of Kandahar. What were these men thinking about when they were planting wreaths for dead Canadians, while behind them in the parade were the battle weary Afghan soldiers, clad in their dark green forest camouflage uniforms and their old, rattling AK-47s? What did they think of us, standing there with our desert camouflage and our high-tech rifles with optical scopes? What did they think, knowing that some of our force was on their "HLTA", a paid vacation to Canada, Thailand, Europe, or any other locale? What did they think, knowing that our risk and hardship bonuses alone could probably outfit an entire ANA battalion with decent uniforms and effective body-armour? What do their soldiers think when they arrived for the ceremony in the back of pickup trucks, driving past our LAV-IIIs and Nayala mine-proof armoured vehicles?
I don’t mean to insinuate that they don’t appreciate the contribution of Canadians; they certainly do. But we get so wrapped up in ourselves, that we forget their contribution, which I would argue is easily an order of magnitude greater than our own in terms of blood. Canadians at home are slowly becoming more cognizant of our own sacrifices, but remain woefully ignorant of the Afghans’.
Not only that, but I know that my family is safe while I am here in Afghanistan. The same cannot be said of an ANA soldier, or Afghan National Police officer. What do the Taliban do to families of “collaborators” when they can find them? Before Canadians deploy, we have to visit a social worker to ensure that our personal lives are stable, so that issues or problems at home won’t distract us when in combat. The Afghan National Army has no such luxury.
I understand that November 11th is Remembrance Day for Canadians; it's our day, and perhaps the Afghans have their own day to remember their losses. But I think that having invited them to participate in our ceremonies, we should have given more credit to them. In the end, I appreciate that they were truly gracious and professional in the face of our oversight, sharing our ceremony with us in dignity. They visibly honoured our commitment and sacrifice, while silently reflecting on their own. These guys impress me more and more each day.
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chrysalis33rpm
- Posts: 1020
- Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2004 9:56 pm
- Location: San Francisco
It's been a while since my last update, and there's been more than a few developments for me here in Afghanistan.
As some of you may recall, I requested a transfer to the Provincial Reconstruction Team (PRT) in downtown Kandahar City. Well, that request came through, at least for a while. I'm replacing somebody while they're on their leave block, and I've been working here for about three weeks. I will be here for a little while longer before I have to go back to the base at Kandahar Airfield.
The focus is completely different here. It's an organization of a number of government departments. Correctional Services Canada is monitoring the prisons here (and mentoring the staff). Foreign Affairs is heavily involved with building the institutions of government here in Afghansitan. The RCMP are here mentoring (and monitoring) the Afghan National Police.
As for the physical reconstruction, the military engineers and a force-protection element are the main players here at the PRT. CIDA (Canadian International Development Agency) is also providing money, but they only hire local contractors to do work.
But I digress... Since I've been here, I've again been working well above my rank level. This is two jobs in a row where I've been working as a Captain (in this most recent case, as a senior Captain and a part of the Commander's Cabinet) but being paid as my rank, Sergeant. Unfortunately they don't do battlefield promotions anymore, so it looks like they'll keep exploiting my labour and expertise for 60% of the pay. But, the experience is great. I'm in charge of my team here (rather than being another worker-bee back at the HQ), so it's good resume padding in a way.
My music has stagnated completely; I haven't booted up Live since I got here to the PRT. The pace of work is far less routine than my job at the airfield, and I find that I used music to entertain myself back at the base. Here though, it's so much more enthralling that I simply haven't put any thought into composing recently. Maybe that will change when I get back, I don't know.
Given that we're right downtown in Kandahar, there are a lot of local nationals who work with us. In fact, probably a good third of the people I interact with here are Afghans, which is a hell of a lot more than the zero that I worked with back at the Airfield. So, I'm a lot less insulated here. I'm exposed to a large cross-section of Pashtun society, from Tribal and political leadership, to the highly educated and academics, to illiterate labourers, soldiers, police, and former mujahadeen. Naturally, I have no interaction with any Afghan women here whatsoever. They're still pretty conservative about that sort of thing.
I find it interesting that many people believe that culture is immutable (despite living in the West, a highly mutable culture itself); I have had correspondence with critics who believe that what we're doing in Afghanistan is a waste of time, claiming that Afghan culture cannot change and that there can be no progress here. This is quite amazing insight on the part of these people, particularly considering that not a single one of them has ever set foot in Afghanistan nor spoken with an Afghan. Here at the PRT, I can see the cultural shifts that are already underway.
Punctuality isn't traditionally considered a virtue by Afghans. It's just not that important. But, our local contractors that we engage to repair roads, build bridges and schools all now understand the need for punctuality; and they're becoming more punctual themselves. Their ability to submit proposals, attend meetings and meet deadlines on time directly affect the likelihood of whether or not they'll get a second contract from us in the future. They transfer that value onto their workers. Through the example we provide in our behaviour, and the power of positive reinforcement, we have seen Kandaharis beginning to adapt their value system.
Another example is truthfulness. In order to save face, it's traditionally considered acceptable in Pashtunwali (the Pashtun code of honour) to tell your hosts, guests or business partners what they want to hear, even if means lying... But interaction with ISAF is such an enticement, that most of the Pashtuns who deal with us on a regular basis (Local authorities, contractors, ANA, government officials and elected representatives) are willing to tell us harsh truths when it's necessary. It's a condition of working with us, and they're beginning to see the advantages of being honest above saving face. Yet another example is the inclusion of women in governance and decision making; there are more than a few women on the Provincial council here (though I haven't met them, as stated above).
I've spoken with some of the westerners who were here in 2002; journalists, contractors, American military, and some Canadian military. The consensus is that not only has the strategic situation and the economy changed in the last five years, but elements of Afghan society are changing as well. Certainly it's not a universal change; as with most societal development, it starts with elites and filters down to the rest over time. It's also not complete; many Afghans will still lie to save face, and many will not be on time... However, it is noticeable that there are a group of elites who have embraced a new way of doing things, and are finding that they are gaining power, influence and economic stability in so doing.
As Alvin Toffler predicted in his 1970's era book Future Shock, the newer way of doing things, if superior, will naturally and inevitably supplant the old. The Taliban know this, but they cannot bring themselves to accept the inevitability of their obsolescence. Afghan society cannot and will not revert now. It's too late, the Taliban just haven't realized it yet.
While some may lament that what we are doing is "cultural imperialism", I would argue that it's not; we are not imposing anything on anybody over here. We are providing an example, and many Afghans themselves are choosing to adopt a more "Western" way of doing things, albeit in small steps and in limited amounts. They're learning that it's profitable and more secure to adapt. Oddly enough, Wahabist / Salafist Islam (Taliban-style Sunni fundamentalism) is actually imposed cultural imperialism itelf. Ultimately, both Western style commercial behaviour and Pashtunwali are both inherently incompatible with strict Sharia.
Anyways, my time at the PRT will soon come to an end. I've requested to stay here, but it's doubtful that I will be able to. Regardless, it's refreshing to deal with another aspect of this country rather than the insurgency itself. When I am old and I look back on my time in Afghanistan, my most profound moments will certainly be memories garnered while here at the PRT.
As some of you may recall, I requested a transfer to the Provincial Reconstruction Team (PRT) in downtown Kandahar City. Well, that request came through, at least for a while. I'm replacing somebody while they're on their leave block, and I've been working here for about three weeks. I will be here for a little while longer before I have to go back to the base at Kandahar Airfield.
The focus is completely different here. It's an organization of a number of government departments. Correctional Services Canada is monitoring the prisons here (and mentoring the staff). Foreign Affairs is heavily involved with building the institutions of government here in Afghansitan. The RCMP are here mentoring (and monitoring) the Afghan National Police.
As for the physical reconstruction, the military engineers and a force-protection element are the main players here at the PRT. CIDA (Canadian International Development Agency) is also providing money, but they only hire local contractors to do work.
But I digress... Since I've been here, I've again been working well above my rank level. This is two jobs in a row where I've been working as a Captain (in this most recent case, as a senior Captain and a part of the Commander's Cabinet) but being paid as my rank, Sergeant. Unfortunately they don't do battlefield promotions anymore, so it looks like they'll keep exploiting my labour and expertise for 60% of the pay. But, the experience is great. I'm in charge of my team here (rather than being another worker-bee back at the HQ), so it's good resume padding in a way.
My music has stagnated completely; I haven't booted up Live since I got here to the PRT. The pace of work is far less routine than my job at the airfield, and I find that I used music to entertain myself back at the base. Here though, it's so much more enthralling that I simply haven't put any thought into composing recently. Maybe that will change when I get back, I don't know.
Given that we're right downtown in Kandahar, there are a lot of local nationals who work with us. In fact, probably a good third of the people I interact with here are Afghans, which is a hell of a lot more than the zero that I worked with back at the Airfield. So, I'm a lot less insulated here. I'm exposed to a large cross-section of Pashtun society, from Tribal and political leadership, to the highly educated and academics, to illiterate labourers, soldiers, police, and former mujahadeen. Naturally, I have no interaction with any Afghan women here whatsoever. They're still pretty conservative about that sort of thing.
I find it interesting that many people believe that culture is immutable (despite living in the West, a highly mutable culture itself); I have had correspondence with critics who believe that what we're doing in Afghanistan is a waste of time, claiming that Afghan culture cannot change and that there can be no progress here. This is quite amazing insight on the part of these people, particularly considering that not a single one of them has ever set foot in Afghanistan nor spoken with an Afghan. Here at the PRT, I can see the cultural shifts that are already underway.
Punctuality isn't traditionally considered a virtue by Afghans. It's just not that important. But, our local contractors that we engage to repair roads, build bridges and schools all now understand the need for punctuality; and they're becoming more punctual themselves. Their ability to submit proposals, attend meetings and meet deadlines on time directly affect the likelihood of whether or not they'll get a second contract from us in the future. They transfer that value onto their workers. Through the example we provide in our behaviour, and the power of positive reinforcement, we have seen Kandaharis beginning to adapt their value system.
Another example is truthfulness. In order to save face, it's traditionally considered acceptable in Pashtunwali (the Pashtun code of honour) to tell your hosts, guests or business partners what they want to hear, even if means lying... But interaction with ISAF is such an enticement, that most of the Pashtuns who deal with us on a regular basis (Local authorities, contractors, ANA, government officials and elected representatives) are willing to tell us harsh truths when it's necessary. It's a condition of working with us, and they're beginning to see the advantages of being honest above saving face. Yet another example is the inclusion of women in governance and decision making; there are more than a few women on the Provincial council here (though I haven't met them, as stated above).
I've spoken with some of the westerners who were here in 2002; journalists, contractors, American military, and some Canadian military. The consensus is that not only has the strategic situation and the economy changed in the last five years, but elements of Afghan society are changing as well. Certainly it's not a universal change; as with most societal development, it starts with elites and filters down to the rest over time. It's also not complete; many Afghans will still lie to save face, and many will not be on time... However, it is noticeable that there are a group of elites who have embraced a new way of doing things, and are finding that they are gaining power, influence and economic stability in so doing.
As Alvin Toffler predicted in his 1970's era book Future Shock, the newer way of doing things, if superior, will naturally and inevitably supplant the old. The Taliban know this, but they cannot bring themselves to accept the inevitability of their obsolescence. Afghan society cannot and will not revert now. It's too late, the Taliban just haven't realized it yet.
While some may lament that what we are doing is "cultural imperialism", I would argue that it's not; we are not imposing anything on anybody over here. We are providing an example, and many Afghans themselves are choosing to adopt a more "Western" way of doing things, albeit in small steps and in limited amounts. They're learning that it's profitable and more secure to adapt. Oddly enough, Wahabist / Salafist Islam (Taliban-style Sunni fundamentalism) is actually imposed cultural imperialism itelf. Ultimately, both Western style commercial behaviour and Pashtunwali are both inherently incompatible with strict Sharia.
Anyways, my time at the PRT will soon come to an end. I've requested to stay here, but it's doubtful that I will be able to. Regardless, it's refreshing to deal with another aspect of this country rather than the insurgency itself. When I am old and I look back on my time in Afghanistan, my most profound moments will certainly be memories garnered while here at the PRT.
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sweetjesus
- Posts: 8803
- Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2004 3:12 pm
- Location: www.fridge.net.au
- Contact:
Some critics would argue that it is a waste of time, blood, lives and money because it has never been our place to "Westernize" Afghanistan (or any other country) or to decide what does or does not constitute "progress" for them.M. Bréqs wrote:
I find it interesting that many people believe that culture is immutable (despite living in the West, a highly mutable culture itself); I have had correspondence with critics who believe that what we're doing in Afghanistan is a waste of time, claiming that Afghan culture cannot change and that there can be no progress here. This is quite amazing insight on the part of these people, particularly considering that not a single one of them has ever set foot in Afghanistan nor spoken with an Afghan. Here at the PRT, I can see the cultural shifts that are already underway.
One doesn't really have to step foot outside of their door or be very literate to understand this, on the other hand one can hold a PHD from SAIS and have travelled the world but still never quite get this simple moral concept.
Amazing really.
Best to you and yours. Be safe.
Your argument attacks a straw-man. It's not our place to westernize Afghanistan. But you're neglecting recent history with that criticism. We're here because we (the west) were attacked. That's our moral justification for being here; we came to root out our attackers. On arriving, we came across a country that was hyper-fucked by 25 years of war and economic stagnation from a theocratic dictatorship. We were morally obligated to help rebuild this place and prevent an alien ideology from again imposing itself on these people.smutek wrote:Some critics would argue that it is a waste of time, blood, lives and money because it has never been our place to "Westernize" Afghanistan (or any other country) or to decide what does or does not constitute "progress" for them.
One doesn't really have to step foot outside of their door or be very literate to understand this, on the other hand one can hold a PHD from SAIS and have travelled the world but still never quite get this simple moral concept.
Amazing really.
Best to you and yours. Be safe.
So here, we're NOT forcibly westernizing anybody, nor are we deciding what constitutes progress for them. Afghan visionaries have decided to adopt our way of doing things because it is obviously more efficient. We compel nobody to adhere to our value system (unlike the Taliban). We have offered a hand, the Afghans can choose to accept it or not. Those who adapt their way of doing things will prosper through the natural laws of economics. C'est la vie. The Taliban hung or shot those who did not accept their morality. That's the difference between us and them.
What you call a simple moral concept is typical of academic ignorance; all theory, no practical experience. It's easy to construct a mental model from the comfort of a university, or your mom's basement, or wherever one can find the sanctuaries of moral relativism. However, to accurately describe a system, objective field observation trumps ideological models almost every time.