Ableton Forum

Hi!

I use Live in live gigs. I use samples to construct the song live and in a different way everytime. But I dont play one song, stop, and start playing the next one. I mix them together. And also, I dont mix them always in the same order. It depends on the mood of the people I decide to go for a different song every time. The problem is that I have to load all the samples of the song everytime and then order them how I like, and can not be changing the music while doing so (and it takes a while in a live situation).

So the perfect way would be to save all the samples of a song as a Live set and then load it while still playing the other set. But as far as I know you cant do that, because when you open a Live set, the other stops playing. And I cant create a Live set with all my songs and samples because I usually play for two hours or more and use a lot of songs and samples.

I tryed opening two Live in the same computer and Rewire one into another but had weird results.

Anybody can help?

thanks

Hugo

if you can afford it, using two computers and a traditional mixer would probably be how i'd do it.

of course, i can't afford two computers, so this advice is probably not super helpful...

It would be great if you could do that, I agree. Maybe in version five.

you can run two instances of live on the same PC and therefore
load two sets at a time (or in exchange).

how it works:

- get Virtual Audio Cable [Ntonyx] and install at least one
virtual cable (if you have multiple outputs you'll install more and
mix the streams outside of your PC (e.g. mixing desk).

- open the Audio repeater [included in VAC] and route cable 1 to the
physical output

- open live and set the output to cable 1.

- open another instance of live and start jamming. if you have multiple outs
(and multiple virtual cables) you need to to set the output of the second
live-instance accordingly (e.g. output -> cable n -> phys.output n).

Are you sure you can do that? Because when I open two Live programs in the same computer at the same time they are not in sync. I asign different outputs of my soundcard to each of them, but they dont follow the same tempo. Each of them starts playing whenever they want. Does this get solve with that application?

Hugo

Sudden Guest wrote:you can run two instances of live on the same PC and therefore
load two sets at a time (or in exchange).

how it works:

- get Virtual Audio Cable [Ntonyx] and install at least one
virtual cable (if you have multiple outputs you'll install more and
mix the streams outside of your PC (e.g. mixing desk).

- open the Audio repeater [included in VAC] and route cable 1 to the
physical output

- open live and set the output to cable 1.

- open another instance of live and start jamming. if you have multiple outs
(and multiple virtual cables) you need to to set the output of the second
live-instance accordingly (e.g. output -> cable n -> phys.output n).

hugolp wrote:Are you sure you can do that? [...] Does this get solve with that application?

indeed, it works. you can try with the demo version (cause one virtual cable
is enough). I can run two instances of live at the same time, hear both
outputs and can start/stop them independantly. of course you can set the
same tempo (or not, as you like...).

about sync: I didn't try that because I don't need this workaround at all. I
just remembered this program from earlier tasks and tried it with live. As
syncing is a question of midi time code/midi clock, you could try to sync
via a virtual midi-cable (liveA syncs liveB, or sync both from an external
device).

if I have time I'll try it.

Yes, that might work! Thank you!!! If this works you have solve me a big big problem!!!

My last question is about an External Midi Controller (the same with the keyboard). I am about to buy one but I dont know how it will behave with two Live programs running in the same computer at the same time. Anybody has tried?

Thanks

Hugo

Sudden Guest wrote:
indeed, it works. you can try with the demo version (cause one virtual cable
is enough). I can run two instances of live at the same time, hear both
outputs and can start/stop them independantly. of course you can set the
same tempo (or not, as you like...).

about sync: I didn't try that because I don't need this workaround at all. I
just remembered this program from earlier tasks and tried it with live. As
syncing is a question of midi time code/midi clock, you could try to sync
via a virtual midi-cable (liveA syncs liveB, or sync both from an external
device).

if I have time I'll try it.

Anonymous wrote:My last question is about an External Midi Controller (the same with the keyboard).

You're lucky Hugo (and other' probably, too)...I didn't believe it but it really
works. Live4 crashes, but with 3.0.4 you can do the following:

- run two instances of live simultaneously on one machine (PC)
- start/stop them individually (if not synced externally)
- sync them to external device (both instances or only one!)
- remote control them with midi-controllers (ctrl-# are spread over both apps)

(See my PC-config in the signature. For external syncing I used a Jomox
xBase, midi-controllers were X-Session and Drehbank [v1]).

I made some snaps:

1. Start 'Audio repeater' from the VAC package and do your tweaks





2. Press the "Start button"




3. Start Live (session A) and tweak the options (audio/midi)






4. Start Live (session B)

If there is a message about rewire and the audio-input not working:
don't care (or choose another input). If rewire works in this setup
was not tested.



5. Assigning midi

There is no problem to assign midi-ctrls. I could control both crossfaders
with the drehbank (e.g. ctrl-# 49 and 50). Therefore a single unit should
be enough for controlling both sessions.

External sync was tested with the xBase (midi clock). Start/stop and tempo-
changes were no problem at all. You can even sync one session and
let the other unaffected which makes lot of fun when slowing down a
vocal loop and leave the beat as is (for example).

6. Reliability

Hmm, I tested with a 'low end' setup and 'eternal' latencies to prevent from
crashes. Furthermore I did not load huge live sets. In terms of remote
control you need to check yourself if the mme/dx drivers are fast enough
for you. I can also say nothing about the quality of the VAC-audio (I rather
listen to the content...). Ask a 'Pro' about that.

...and have fun.

Yes, it really works!!!!

I am having some problems though.

The first thing is that you need two soundcards, because the first Live takes over the ASIO driver and dont let the second Live use it. So you need two soundcards. I use the internal soundcard of my laptop (Im lucky it has ASIO) as second soundcard. I wouldnt do that for recording (the quality...) but for a live gig where I am going to use this configuration is allright. And as you are using two soundcards you need a mixer, but that even adds more fun because you can actually mix like a dj! I can wait to try it in my next gig!!! The guys of the band are not going to believe it. Oh yeah! and you need to play with the latency of the midi clock to get everything sync, because probably the two sound cards wont have the same latency. Ill do a resume when I get it all sorted perfect.

The second problem is that I use the first Live to generate the clock signal, and the second Live in sync with that. The problem is that when I want to load a new set in the first Live it stops. So I am here getting a software midi clock generator (found a couple free searching in google). Also I have some problems when trying to sync on the fly (with the other song in the middle) but hopefully that will be solve by using a external midi clock and making the two Lives sync with it.

As I said I can wait to try it live!!!!!!!!! Oh, and thanks a lot for the help Sudden Guest! If you live in London Ill get you in the guest list of our next gig!!!

Hugo

Sudden Guest wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My last question is about an External Midi Controller (the same with the keyboard).

You're lucky Hugo (and other' probably, too)...I didn't believe it but it really
works. Live4 crashes, but with 3.0.4 you can do the following:

- run two instances of live simultaneously on one machine (PC)
- start/stop them individually (if not synced externally)
- sync them to external device (both instances or only one!)
- remote control them with midi-controllers (ctrl-# are spread over both apps)

(See my PC-config in the signature. For external syncing I used a Jomox
xBase, midi-controllers were X-Session and Drehbank [v1]).

I made some snaps:

1. Start 'Audio repeater' from the VAC package and do your tweaks





2. Press the "Start button"




3. Start Live (session A) and tweak the options (audio/midi)






4. Start Live (session B)

If there is a message about rewire and the audio-input not working:
don't care (or choose another input). If rewire works in this setup
was not tested.



5. Assigning midi

There is no problem to assign midi-ctrls. I could control both crossfaders
with the drehbank (e.g. ctrl-# 49 and 50). Therefore a single unit should
be enough for controlling both sessions.

External sync was tested with the xBase (midi clock). Start/stop and tempo-
changes were no problem at all. You can even sync one session and
let the other unaffected which makes lot of fun when slowing down a
vocal loop and leave the beat as is (for example).

6. Reliability

Hmm, I tested with a 'low end' setup and 'eternal' latencies to prevent from
crashes. Furthermore I did not load huge live sets. In terms of remote
control you need to check yourself if the mme/dx drivers are fast enough
for you. I can also say nothing about the quality of the VAC-audio (I rather
listen to the content...). Ask a 'Pro' about that.

...and have fun.

hi hugo, I'm glad that this a solution for you.

Concerning the two soundcards I still have my doubt if this works in a stable
manner. As both live sessions use the same preferences(?) I'm afraid of conflicts. Maybe a test with two sessions located at different paths on your
harddisk solves that doubt.

I used the virtual audio cable because of it's ability to pick the audio of various
applications, no matter if the soundcard driver allows sharing of physical outputs between them. My soundcard has 10 outputs (or: 5 stereo) but I can't
make it work that session A uses other output-pairs (cue/master) than
session B. Live stucks then. Maybe my brain stucks here, too.

Anyway, if it works for you there's no need to investigate this.

Hi!

Theres no conflicts between the two Lives using different soundcard. The only thing is that the configuration that remains for next time is the one from the Live you close last. I guess they have it in RAM and just save it when the program closes. I am very surprised with Live. It is very, very stable. They have very good programmers in Ableton.

Thanks for your help and, you know, if you live in London and want to see it working live just send me and email.

Hugo

Sudden Guest wrote:hi hugo, I'm glad that this a solution for you.

Concerning the two soundcards I still have my doubt if this works in a stable
manner. As both live sessions use the same preferences(?) I'm afraid of conflicts. Maybe a test with two sessions located at different paths on your
harddisk solves that doubt.

I used the virtual audio cable because of it's ability to pick the audio of various
applications, no matter if the soundcard driver allows sharing of physical outputs between them. My soundcard has 10 outputs (or: 5 stereo) but I can't
make it work that session A uses other output-pairs (cue/master) than
session B. Live stucks then. Maybe my brain stucks here, too.

Anyway, if it works for you there's no need to investigate this.