Ableton Forum

Today at work we received a company wide email telling us how our severance package is calculated if/when we get laid off. Amongst all the other jargon was "one of the most competitive severance packages on the market" and I couldn't stop laughing.

Seriously, are corporations "competing" for who does the best layoffs? Is this something I should bring up at my next job interview? Should I ask for a detailed history of the company's mass layoffs and severance packages?

"And what kind of polyester parachute will you offer me when the company fails?"

I hope the person that wrote that is the first to experience their classy ass-shafting.

HR, that's a creepy business to be in, they have no soul, they're the henchmen of upper management.

Tone Deft wrote:I hope the person that wrote that is the first to experience their classy ass-shafting.

HR, that's a creepy business to be in, they have no soul, they're the henchmen of upper management.

A friend once asked me to write copy for a client's website he was working on and he was going to pay me and everything. It was the longest 4 hours of pacing in my life and in the end I couldn't do it. I just couldn't write any kind of glowing advertisement full of spin for something and completely free of sarcasm.

That's why I laughed when somebody was attempting to put a positive spin on "you're fired".

As an even funnier slap in the face another company email came out about a half hour later saying in 2009 they will be increasing cash incentives and commissions ....for the remaining that didn't get shit canned this round.

The next round of layoffs is Jan. 5th. I'm pumped.

Tone Deft wrote:I hope the person that wrote that is the first to experience their classy ass-shafting.

HR, that's a creepy business to be in, they have no soul, they're the henchmen of upper management.

Just thought of Toby, the HR dude from the Office.

Then I realized: I'm here on Ableton's forums, talking about a TV show that is very OT. I truly have no life.

In either case, back to my reason for posting.

Good luck Beats Me! I hope your still employed in 2009!!! Te SF Bay Area is ass for jobs right now.

beats me wrote:Seriously, are corporations "competing" for who does the best layoffs? Is this something I should bring up at my next job interview? Should I ask for a detailed history of the company's mass layoffs and severance packages?

For me the severance package is a retention card. There are still jobs for me if I want to move companies, but I stand to make a lot of money if I get laid off from my current employer whereas I would get little from my next employer.

mkelly wrote:

beats me wrote:Seriously, are corporations "competing" for who does the best layoffs? Is this something I should bring up at my next job interview? Should I ask for a detailed history of the company's mass layoffs and severance packages?

For me the severance package is a retention card. There are still jobs for me if I want to move companies, but I stand to make a lot of money if I get laid off from my current employer whereas I would get little from my next employer.

That's kind of the way I am looking at it. There's a good chance I won't get hit this round but maybe at some point in 2009. So throw in the severance package and whatever unemployment benefits are at the time and I can start the stress from there. Plus I work for a really well known corporation and the longer you stay the better it looks on your resume.

So maybe I'll be lucky enough to ride it out until after the economy hits bottum and there will be better job hunting.

They changed the name of our Human Resources department to Human Performance a couple of years ago. Weird weird weird...

Listening to NPR today they said it's the worst job market in 16 years...

::stepping outside of myself::
i'm posting on a forum
about the HP dept
16 years...

::logs off of Abletonia::

Hidden Driveways wrote:They changed the name of our Human Resources department to Human Performance a couple of years ago. Weird weird weird...

Listening to NPR today they said it's the worst job market in 16 years...

::stepping outside of myself::
i'm posting on a forum
about the HP dept
16 years...

::logs off of Abletonia::

Our parent corporation owns many well known smaller companies and there are many sub company names that we fall under before it gets to that parent name.

We've fallen under the umbrella of several of those different sub companies in the last couple years until just last month we fell under a new company they just created that they might as well call "Liquidation". This basically means they want us off the stock holders' radar but if our blip does appear they can say they are making great efforts to cut us lose.

I can honestly say that a lot of people work here just to have that parent corporation name on their resume.

beats me wrote:Seriously, are corporations "competing" for who does the best layoffs? Is this something I should bring up at my next job interview? Should I ask for a detailed history of the company's mass layoffs and severance packages?

"And what kind of polyester parachute will you offer me when the company fails?"

Cover thy ass should be thy motto. You won't know unless you ask. Of course they do not have to tell the truth, & anything they say can evaporate overnight. Get it in writing.

I have no idea what constitutes a competitive severance package, but I'm pretty happy with mine:

3 months full salary
3 months full insurance (which I think they do by listing you as still employed... never quite understood the formula)
Salary adjustment payout (if you are below their view of market wages, but for some reason they never gave you a raise)
Full-pay for vacation days (I think they have to do this)
Half-pay for personal days
Quarter pay for sick days
401K vesting (with some funky calculator I don't understand, but it's better than waiting for the normal vesting... I don't care though, since I'm vested already)
BIG ONE - full bonus payout for the percentage of the salaried year you actually worked...

We've had multiple layoffs now, and my closest work peer, layed off last year, got a stellar package.
Between the salary, the salary adjustment, the vacation, the personal days, the sick days, and the bonus, he got like $25,000 (NET)... insurance for 3 months, fully vested in his now worthless 401k (was much better at the time), and (as a consequence) a very nice trip to Greece which I still don't think he's quite back from.
All BEFORE he started unemployment (which he didn't take for long because he was bored).

Even better, he came back as a contractor at 3-times his normal wage for 6 months.
Lucky bastard.

The next time we had a layoff, I actually wanted to be let go.
But I'm still here.

Ah well. There'll be more.

- zevo

inmazevo wrote:The next time we had a layoff, I actually wanted to be let go.
But I'm still here.

Ah well. There'll be more.

- zevo

Careful what you wish for. Last recession I did the same thing and after getting laid off I had a shit job for about 4 years (granted, my fault). Then I finally landed another good job, and hey, layoffs again. What an exciting pattern.

beats me wrote:

inmazevo wrote:The next time we had a layoff, I actually wanted to be let go.
But I'm still here.
Ah well. There'll be more.
- zevo

Careful what you wish for. Last recession I did the same thing and after getting laid off I had a shit job for about 4 years (granted, my fault). Then I finally landed another good job, and hey, layoffs again. What an exciting pattern.

Yeah, that's the thing, right?
After he left here when his contract ended, the economy collapsed. He found another job, but at a cut in pay and less benefits. That was 6 months ago... much worse now. He's lucky (again).

I'd take it, over nothing, but my son needs all the stuff kids need, so I'm happy just biding time.

Hate this job, but better than the current alternatives.
Besides, we're at minimal staffing right now, and are owned by a company of 3 companies owned by other companies (aircraft industry... it's like that), and they'll keep us open because we're cheap from their point of view, and they figure they'll need what we do at the end of the tunnel.

Take care,
- zevo

inmazevo wrote:I have no idea what constitutes a competitive severance package, but I'm pretty happy with mine:

3 months full salary
3 months full insurance (which I think they do by listing you as still employed... never quite understood the formula)
Salary adjustment payout (if you are below their view of market wages, but for some reason they never gave you a raise)
Full-pay for vacation days (I think they have to do this)
Half-pay for personal days
Quarter pay for sick days
401K vesting (with some funky calculator I don't understand, but it's better than waiting for the normal vesting... I don't care though, since I'm vested already)
BIG ONE - full bonus payout for the percentage of the salaried year you actually worked...

We've had multiple layoffs now, and my closest work peer, layed off last year, got a stellar package.
Between the salary, the salary adjustment, the vacation, the personal days, the sick days, and the bonus, he got like $25,000 (NET)... insurance for 3 months, fully vested in his now worthless 401k (was much better at the time), and (as a consequence) a very nice trip to Greece which I still don't think he's quite back from.
All BEFORE he started unemployment (which he didn't take for long because he was bored).

Even better, he came back as a contractor at 3-times his normal wage for 6 months.
Lucky bastard.

The next time we had a layoff, I actually wanted to be let go.
But I'm still here.

Ah well. There'll be more.

- zevo

We get a months pay tax free for every year we've been with the company, plus a month. So people like me who have been there for 10 years would get nearly a year's tax-free pay. So getting made redundant would not be the end of the world by any stretch.

brightonalex wrote:

inmazevo wrote:I have no idea what constitutes a competitive severance package, but I'm pretty happy with mine:

3 months full salary
3 months full insurance (which I think they do by listing you as still employed... never quite understood the formula)
Salary adjustment payout (if you are below their view of market wages, but for some reason they never gave you a raise)
Full-pay for vacation days (I think they have to do this)
Half-pay for personal days
Quarter pay for sick days
401K vesting (with some funky calculator I don't understand, but it's better than waiting for the normal vesting... I don't care though, since I'm vested already)
BIG ONE - full bonus payout for the percentage of the salaried year you actually worked...

We've had multiple layoffs now, and my closest work peer, layed off last year, got a stellar package.
Between the salary, the salary adjustment, the vacation, the personal days, the sick days, and the bonus, he got like $25,000 (NET)... insurance for 3 months, fully vested in his now worthless 401k (was much better at the time), and (as a consequence) a very nice trip to Greece which I still don't think he's quite back from.
All BEFORE he started unemployment (which he didn't take for long because he was bored).

Even better, he came back as a contractor at 3-times his normal wage for 6 months.
Lucky bastard.

The next time we had a layoff, I actually wanted to be let go.
But I'm still here.

Ah well. There'll be more.

- zevo

We get a months pay tax free for every year we've been with the company, plus a month. So people like me who have been there for 10 years would get nearly a year's tax-free pay. So getting made redundant would not be the end of the world by any stretch.

I'm not sure where you live but I doubt most countries' governments are going to honor "tax-free". It may not be taken out of your check right away but the government will take it from you at the end of the year.

A lot of people are shocked in the US when tax isn't taken out of their unemployment checks but they have to claim it at the end of the year and taxes apply.

There are no severance laws where I come from (bummer), but a company I used to work for just announced they were making a bunch of folks redundant. The best they could offer was 1 month salary for every year you worked there. Not too bad considering some folks have worked there for 25 years - there may have been a limit on 12 years but it didn't say so in the letter everyone got