Ableton Forum

In other words, will I be able to design an LFO in Max and use it in Live?

If Max is fully integrated in Live, this should at least be indirectly possible, where the LFO sends a MIDI controller to an internal MIDI bus, which is then received by Live to control one or more parameters.

If this is possible, then it will also possible to draw midi mapping curves, which is a feature I miss (coming from an Audiomulch background). MIDI comes into a MFL effect, gets mapped to the curve and then sent out an internal MIDI bus (which can be selected on the MFL effect)

Korhan wrote:In other words, will I be able to design an LFO in Max and use it in Live?

If Max is fully integrated in Live, this should at least be indirectly possible, where the LFO sends a MIDI controller to an internal MIDI bus, which is then received by Live to control one or more parameters.

If this is possible, then it will also possible to draw midi mapping curves, which is a feature I miss (coming from an Audiomulch background). MIDI comes into a MFL effect, gets mapped to the curve and then sent out an internal MIDI bus (which can be selected on the MFL effect)

On the Max forum someone just asked Jeremy if send and receive would work between devices and he said yes, much the same way it works between pluggos.

stringtapper wrote:

Korhan wrote:In other words, will I be able to design an LFO in Max and use it in Live?

If Max is fully integrated in Live, this should at least be indirectly possible, where the LFO sends a MIDI controller to an internal MIDI bus, which is then received by Live to control one or more parameters.

If this is possible, then it will also possible to draw midi mapping curves, which is a feature I miss (coming from an Audiomulch background). MIDI comes into a MFL effect, gets mapped to the curve and then sent out an internal MIDI bus (which can be selected on the MFL effect)

On the Max forum someone just asked Jeremy if send and receive would work between devices and he said yes, much the same way it works between pluggos.

Wow! I figured you could at least ctlout but ability to use send/receive in a patch to send midi to different devices loaded in the same Live set would be amazing.

That's really good news. Now that you mention Pluggo, I wonder if Cycling 74 plans to do a Pluggo Live pack where all Pluggos are integrated into Live just like the MFL effects are. This could be a free (nice) or paid (less nice) upgrade for current Pluggo users.

A similar question:

Can MFL automate the controls on other devices?

Korhan wrote:That's really good news. Now that you mention Pluggo, I wonder if Cycling 74 plans to do a Pluggo Live pack where all Pluggos are integrated into Live just like the MFL effects are. This could be a free (nice) or paid (less nice) upgrade for current Pluggo users.

Good idea. They've also said that the Max 5 compatible Pluggo will come after M4L.

Since Max 5 has major GUI improvements over previous Max versions, they will probably redesign some of the Pluggo interfaces. They could do a separate redesign the Live GUI elements. The Pluggo plugins would be a great addition to Live.

*delete duplicate post doh*

crumhorn wrote:A similar question:

Can MFL automate the controls on other devices?

I would guess the answer is:

Yes, if that device can recieve MIDI or max messages. So Yes for 3rd party vsti's that can receive MIDI CC messages or devices made with MFL.

No, if that device does not receive remote MIDI CC or max messages. So no for things like Operator.

Just a guess but based on many other threads I think it's a good guess.

If MFL effects can send MIDI over internal MIDI busses, then they can automate every parameter in any MFLi Live or AU/VST effect/instrument, either through Max messages (a la Pluggos) or by sending MIDI CC over internal MIDI busses that can easily be mapped to Live/Plugin parameters by Live's MIDI assign feature.

Korhan wrote:If MFL effects can send MIDI over internal MIDI busses, then they can automate every parameter in any MFLi Live or AU/VST effect/instrument, either through Max messages (a la Pluggos) or by sending MIDI CC over internal MIDI busses that can easily be mapped to Live/Plugin parameters by Live's MIDI assign feature.

Yes and No. That would work for things made in MFL and SOME 3rd party vst/au but Live devices (in < 7.x anyway) do not recieve midi messages.

I.E. you can't send a MIDI CC message to Operator. So internal bus or not, it wouldn't respond.

crumhorn wrote:A similar question:

Can MFL automate the controls on other devices?

Funny, I have a beer riding on the fact that I was certain that no one would ask this question at NAMM. You're not at NAMM, are you? Because I really want that beer.

The short answer is yes. The long answer is that it's not as easy as it sounds, but that it should be possible, with some work on the part of the user.

jb

So you mean I cannot assign a knob on my midi controller that sends a MIDI cc to a parameter in Operator? This is obviously not true. You can assign a MIDI cc to any parameter in Live. Maybe it was my explanation that got you confused. What I mean is:

a MFL effect that creates and sends a MIDI cc message to an internal MIDI bus (such as MIDI Yoke or IAC).
that MIDI bus is actived in Live's preferences for MIDI control (Remote)
Live is put into MIDI learn mode (Ctrl or CMD-M)
a parameter in Operator (or simpler, sampler, impulse, etc) is selected
the MFL effect is made to send its MIDI cc output, which will be received and assigned to that parameter by Live.
So, the MFL effect is sending that MIDI cc over an internal MIDI bus, just like an external hardware MIDI controller would send a MIDI cc over its USB or MIDI Out.

I hope it's clearer now.

jeremydb wrote:

crumhorn wrote:A similar question:

Can MFL automate the controls on other devices?

Funny, I have a beer riding on the fact that I was certain that no one would ask this question at NAMM. You're not at NAMM, are you? Because I really want that beer.

The short answer is yes. The long answer is that it's not as easy as it sounds, but that it should be possible, with some work on the part of the user.

jb

No I'm not at NAMM so your beer is still safe.

I guess it would involve going through the Live API - right... wrong?

Korhan - I was kind of hoping the need to route MIDI back into live via Midi Yoke would be a thing of the past.

Would it not be great if we could just select "Automation" as a destination in the "Midi To" selector.

Korhan wrote:So you mean I cannot assign a knob on my midi controller that sends a MIDI cc to a parameter in Operator? This is obviously not true. You can assign a MIDI cc to any parameter in Live. Maybe it was my explanation that got you confused. What I mean is:

a MFL effect that creates and sends a MIDI cc message to an internal MIDI bus (such as MIDI Yoke or IAC).
that MIDI bus is actived in Live's preferences for MIDI control (Remote)
Live is put into MIDI learn mode (Ctrl or CMD-M)
a parameter in Operator (or simpler, sampler, impulse, etc) is selected
the MFL effect is made to send its MIDI cc output, which will be received and assigned to that parameter by Live.
So, the MFL effect is sending that MIDI cc over an internal MIDI bus, just like an external hardware MIDI controller would send a MIDI cc over its USB or MIDI Out.

I hope it's clearer now.

Ableton MIDI mapping is NOT THE SAME THING as a device receiving midi data directly.

Live devices, like Operator do not accept MIDI CC messages internally, ONLY VIA remote MIDI mapping.

So you cannot send a CC from one midi track to an operator instance in another. This is a different thing than saying you can map a knob on your usb controller to control a parameter externally.

Go find the "why doesn't Live have MIDI LFO" post by Robert Henke and you'll find the info you're missing on this.

As others have pointed out, the only way then this could be possible is via direct API integration, if MFL objects can send to things like Operator at an API level. But not via MIDI.