Ableton Forum

Ok I know they're not in the same price range even with the 50% price drop on the Lemur for the next 60 days, but suppose money was no object, which would you recommend?

I've been putting together a live looping rig for the past year and the one last piece is one central controller. I mostly need parameter control since I play any softsynths with my Stick.

I know this may seem premature since hardly anyone has even touched an APC40 yet, so I guess I'm mainly asking for advice from those who have used the Lemur.

If money were no object buy a lemur at the reduced rate. The APC will feel like chump change to buy months later.

Unfortunately for me money is an object.

stringtapper wrote:but suppose money was no object, which would you recommend?

That's an easy one! Both. APC to fire clips, control macro's on devices etcetera.
Lemur to control synths and effects, Max patches, step sequencers.

Find out if you need physical buttons, knobs and sliders. If you don't need them, the Lemur is much more powerful and much more customizable.

I use a knob controller for some things I wouldn't like to do on the Lemur, however that's perhaps because of habits. Sometimes also a haptic response is nice, e.g. when starting clips without having your eyes on the Lemur.

Sometimes having a fixed layout is a lot easier to work with than a system that gives you flexibility. The first system forces you to work along with it and in a short time you develop your own style around that system (in this case the APC40). The other system (Lemur) is so flexible that it takes you too long to arrive at the 'right' layout, if ever.

Korhan wrote:Sometimes having a fixed layout is a lot easier to work with than a system that gives you flexibility. The first system forces you to work along with it and in a short time you develop your own style around that system (in this case the APC40). The other system (Lemur) is so flexible that it takes you too long to arrive at the 'right' layout, if ever.

I can definitely see this as being an issue. I can also see getting lost making UIs to fit my Max patches until I forgot how to play my instrument.

Thanks for the replies. Anyone who has other perspectives keep 'em coming.

Lemur by far. JUst have an idea of what you want to do with it before buying it. At $1750 I'm seriously thinking about selling off some stuff to get it myself.
The APC40 looks cool, but if you do any work in the Arrangement View, then I think it's limited compared in many ways.

+ the lemur will be able to do what the APC does and more. Apart from tactile feedback. But there are more Dumb terminals out there. The BCR comes to mind.

I'd suggest to get an APC40 and an iPod Touch... load an OSC app on the iPod to control Live.. you can even use the accelerometers to control stuff in Live. I forgot its name now, but there is an app for the ipod touch that allows you to create custom control interfaces (looks very similar to Lemur). Since iPod is multitouch too, you've got yourself a nice, extremely portable controller that you can use anywhere.

Korhan wrote:I'd suggest to get an APC40 and an iPod Touch... load an OSC app on the iPod to control Live.. you can even use the accelerometers to control stuff in Live. I forgot its name now, but there is an app for the ipod touch that allows you to create custom control interfaces (looks very similar to Lemur). Since iPod is multitouch too, you've got yourself a nice, extremely portable controller that you can use anywhere.

Yeah I've got an iPhone. I think TouchOSC is the one you're thinking of. I have it but haven't gotten around to using it.

The iPhone is very cool as a controller, but the physicality of using it while playing an instrument plus the screen real estate are issues for me.

Korhan wrote:Sometimes having a fixed layout is a lot easier to work with than a system that gives you flexibility. The first system forces you to work along with it and in a short time you develop your own style around that system (in this case the APC40). The other system (Lemur) is so flexible that it takes you too long to arrive at the 'right' layout, if ever.

I have a lemur since 2006, and im still losing time experimenting with useless stuff, so i guess you are partly right but i try to see these experiments as a hobby separate from music so aint that bad. otherwise, i know pretty much what im after, and i bought a lemur coz "traditional" controllers were not answering my very specific needs...
its a bit like max/msp. if all you need is a fm synth, no need to buy max msp for it. but if you have a specific idea, then max/msp is a good option. if you buy a lemur without really needing it, you might indeed end up spending a lot of time experimenting its endless possibilities...

Benshik wrote:its a bit like max/msp. if all you need is a fm synth, no need to buy max msp for it. but if you have a specific idea, then max/msp is a good option.

Good analogy.

I'll save up to buy an APC40 by the time it's out. To complement my Lemur. Probably. Most likely.

.m

Another Lemur user chiming in here.

If money is no object, and I had to choose between the two? No competition!
LEMUR ALL THE WAY - and especially with the new reduced price of the Lemur.

I find it *easy* to build interfaces on the Lemur - whenever I demo it I start by showing people how quickly you can build a viable midi control interface.

Stringtapper, you're already a maxMSP user, right? Again, then there's NO contest, I find the Lemur to be the best interface for the Lemur EVER.

For live looping, consider this - a nice full layout for 4xLive Loopers (and snaps of the JazzEditor really don't do the pretty pretty lights justice!:

Another Lemur user here and I definitely say get both or just the Lemur. I'll be buying an APC40 when they come out as it will delay my purchase of a second Lemur for awhile. I wish that Jazzmutant was a bigger company and could work together more with companies like Ableton so custom template solutions (like the APC40, Lemurized) could be implemented. The Lemur is hands down the best software controller on the market but it's just too bad that more complete "load and go on port 2" Modules aren't available with the complexity of features of the APC40 and certain other controllers. I'll admit that the features can be recreated in Templates for the Lemur, but they aren't exactly as quick or as easy to get running as, say, Automap Novation style. Maybe I'm just saying we need an Automappable Dexter for Ableton Live? Yeah.... that's what we need. And then a Lemur on the side! Anyone?