does anybody actually use the Export Normalize option?

mholloway · Post by **mholloway** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:28 pm

...and if so, why? In the case of exporting full songs, it seems this would be death to any mastering process done post-mixdown. Or if you did your mastering in ableton's master channel, you wouldn't need it (the normalize). So is this just useful, perhaps, for exporting various loops that you want to crank to 0 (the peaks anyway) before bringing them back into the mix? curious....-M

ciw · Post by **ciw** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:04 pm

it wouldn't be death to mastering, however I don't use it because it takes bloody ages - it effectively renders the song twice! would be much faster if it rendered the song once in 64 bit precision, saving the peak value, then normalized and dithered in a second pass.

and if you're mastering inside ableton then you can indeed set up the limiter so the peak value is 0.0, no need to normalize.

Khazul · Post by **Khazul** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:08 pm

Never used it.

serge_a_storms · Post by **serge_a_storms** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:24 pm

I've used it on works in progress just to get a decent level. It's usually when I want to have a listen to where I'm at with a tune whilst not at the computer.

Khazul · Post by **Khazul** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:27 pm

serge_a_storms wrote:I've used it on works in progress just to get a decent level. It's usually when I want to have a listen to where I'm at with a tune whilst not at the computer.

Normalize is completely useless for that on its own - stick a limiter on first, then using for that makes some sense I guess.

blaugruen7 · Post by **blaugruen7** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:01 pm

i use it when i just want to export some work in progress.

Fieldy · Post by **Fieldy** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:21 pm

damn. exported lanes of my song for a live gig with export all tracks and forgot to turn off the normalize button. do i have to adjust all the volumes new?

blaugruen7 · Post by **blaugruen7** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:23 pm

all you tracks will be louder i guess....

Fieldy · Post by **Fieldy** » Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:03 pm

but the relation of the gain of the tracks got lost?

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:56 am

No - Khazul is correct - learn how to use compression/limiting. At least for 24 bit audio. You have otns of headroom to play with and adding gain later is no probs within limits.

However, if you are working with 16 bit material, it makes more sense as you need to get levels hotter. Although it would be preferable if you could set your normalize to something other than 0dbFS. Soundforge lets you set it at your own level for normalize and has presets for -0.3, -0.6 and -1.0

Homebelly · Post by **Homebelly** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:02 am

I'll never normalize.
I'm not sure how much truth there is in this, but i'm of the opinion that its about one of the worst things you can do to digital audio. Its my understanding that the process looks for the highest peak, compares that to the lowest peak, averages every thing out and then adds the required number of samples to the peaks that fall below, or subtracts them from the peaks that go above.

... or some thing like that..
Any way, what ever it does, it sounds horrible to my ears. A soft limiter , or better yet a, gain plug is a much better idea in my opinion as it will keep a more natural and musicale dynamic..

blaugruen7 · Post by **blaugruen7** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:11 am

Fieldy wrote:but the relation of the gain of the tracks got lost?

yes.
all tracks will be right below clipping.

serge_a_storms · Post by **serge_a_storms** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:07 am

Khazul wrote:
serge_a_storms wrote:I've used it on works in progress just to get a decent level. It's usually when I want to have a listen to where I'm at with a tune whilst not at the computer.
Normalize is completely useless for that on its own - stick a limiter on first, then using for that makes some sense I guess.

It works for me. I might add I only use it just to listen to where I'm going with a track, not for proper mixes and the like. I might have a few ideas knocking about and want to listen whilst away from the computer to get an idea of arrangement or sounds. I just export them with normalise turned on and bung it on my mp3 player. It's just quick and easy for me to do it that way.

trevorc · Post by **trevorc** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:26 am

Homebelly wrote:I'll never normalize.
I'm not sure how much truth there is in this, but i'm of the opinion that its about one of the worst things you can do to digital audio. Its my understanding that the process looks for the highest peak, compares that to the lowest peak, averages every thing out and then adds the required number of samples to the peaks that fall below, or subtracts them from the peaks that go above. ... or some thing like that..
Any way, what ever it does, it sounds horrible to my ears. A soft limiter , or better yet a, gain plug is a much better idea in my opinion as it will keep a more natural and musicale dynamic..

is normalising really doing all that? i thought it was simply bringing the overall volume up until the highest peak touches 0db?

mdk · Post by **mdk** » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:29 am

blaugruen7 wrote:
Fieldy wrote:but the relation of the gain of the tracks got lost?
yes.
all tracks will be right below clipping.

EDIT - I DIDNT READ WHAT HE WROTE PROPERLY THE FIRST TIME - EDIT. sorry chaps.

dont worry about normalising. all it does is change the volume of the final mix *if* it either peaks above or below zero. it *doesnt* change the volume of individual tracks.

it just makes sure that the highest level in the output is equal to zero.

the main issue with the process is that it takes twice as long to render.