Ableton Forum

Sorry about the inflammatory post title (eh, not really). Just trying to understand this issue a little better. The "press" tells me this is a generational issue. To me, it's totally obvious that using cracked software is outright thievery - clearly not a universally held belief. What's your (oversimplified, black & white) philosophy, and what's your age? Personally, I'm an over 40, earn what you got curmudgeon.

which answer wins me a free iPod?

string em 'up

beat to death.who the fuck cares.

its a lot more of complex issue than thievery. When a thief steals something, they are directly taking away something of value from another person. With digital files, its merely copies of something. Digital piracy doe not directly take away something of value, it takes away the POTENTIAL for value. Because of its free, COPIED nature, it doesn't necessarily in turn mean that every pirated version is a direct loss in sales. Many of the people using pirated digital things would not have necessarily bought it otherwise. They simply would have chosen not to use it. Furthermore, many software tools in the industry are often copied by people (teenagers usually) who can't afford it retail. These people learn these tools and eventually become professional enough later in life to afford them. In these cases, it actually HELPS the content producer because that person learned and adopted their product, making them long term customers when they were able to afford it. If they dont, its unlikely they would have been able to or would have bought it in the first place, so its not a real loss. Of course there are lots of cases where the potential was real and something of value is being lost, but its not as simple as outright thievery.

Is software the internet?

Geezus wrote:(teenagers usually) who can't afford it retail.

Imagine how awesome world economy would be right now if all the teenagers got off their lazy asses and started working.

I joke I joke

seriously though, my grandfather got a job at 16 to feed his family, he's currently a millionaire. anyone who steals something cause they can't afford it both a) must be deathly in need of said item (ie food/water) and b) better be working 2 full time jobs and not just being a lazy 'gimme gimme' brat.

Geezus wrote:its a lot more of complex issue than thievery.

No- it's not. But go on...

When a thief steals something, they are directly taking away something of value from another person. With digital files, its merely copies of something. Digital piracy doe not directly take away something of value, it takes away the POTENTIAL for value.

You could claim the same about patent infringment. Fortunately, the real world doesn't go by your view.

Because of its free, COPIED nature, it doesn't necessarily in turn mean that every pirated version is a direct loss in sales. Many of the people using pirated digital things would not have necessarily bought it otherwise. They simply would have chosen not to use it.

With all the good freeware out there, that's not an excuse. But, go on...

Furthermore, many software tools in the industry are often copied by people (teenagers usually) who can't afford it retail.

Gee- you think maybe they could get a job? Do you want to know how many hours I worked to get my first set of drums? My first guitar? My first synth?

These people learn these tools and eventually become professional enough later in life to afford them. In these cases, it actually HELPS the content producer because that person learned and adopted their product, making them long term customers when they were able to afford it.

It helps the content producer how? By depriving them of income that they could have used to make the product better? But, I digress...

If they dont, its unlikely they would have been able to or would have bought it in the first place, so its not a real loss.

Besides the little punks doing damage to the reputation of the product when they complain on the forums that their crack doesn't work, you mean?

Of course there are lots of cases where the potential was real and something of value is being lost, but its not as simple as outright thievery.

Wrong again...

Have you ever realized that you wouldn't feel it necessary to "justify" this as you're doing if you knew that what you were doing wasn't wrong?

ew

beat to death who the fuck cares.....

feeling guilty ??



crack users - say three hail marys and go to bed with no supper !

then death at dawn by ze guillotine ....

ewistrand wrote: You could claim the same about patent infringment. Fortunately, the real world doesn't go by your view.

when I really stop to think about it I don't really believe in patents. Imagine if the man who invented the wheel had patented it, he would have been the king of the world by now. without patents anyone could make the product and the one who offered the best version of it and the best customer service would come out on top.

of course no one will agree with me, but I'm talkin about a perfect world scenario.

I just sorta see it like "who the hell am I to say someone can't make the same thing I made?"

Johnisfaster wrote:

ewistrand wrote: You could claim the same about patent infringment. Fortunately, the real world doesn't go by your view.

when I really stop to think about it I don't really believe in patents. Imagine if the man who invented the wheel had patented it, he would have been the king of the world by now. without patents anyone could make the product and the one who offered the best version of it and the best customer service would come out on top.

The whole point is- where's the incentive to improve if anybody can take your work and use it? People who've thought of a better and different way to do something because the other way was patented have made technology what it is today IMO.

ew

the whole point is greed not to further mankind. I imagine a perfect world where we all share ideas and encourage each other to build, patents get in the way of the diy nature of man and eventually we become what we are now 'I'll work over there so I can buy this over here'

I don't know, I feel ranty and I'm not even 100% what I'm upset about.

Johnisfaster wrote:when I really stop to think about it I don't really believe in patents. Imagine if the man who invented the wheel had patented it, he would have been the king of the world by now.

Well, probably by now his patent would have expired...

The idea of a patent is to bestow a modest exclusionary period to allow the inventor to capitalize on his/her invention. The system isn't perfect and it gets abused. But like copyright laws, we're probably better off with than without.

Besides, it makes it so much easier for lawyers to focus on just one company when they want to file a product liability suit!

ewistrand wrote:

Geezus wrote:its a lot more of complex issue than thievery.

No- it's not. But go on...

When a thief steals something, they are directly taking away something of value from another person. With digital files, its merely copies of something. Digital piracy doe not directly take away something of value, it takes away the POTENTIAL for value.

You could claim the same about patent infringment. Fortunately, the real world doesn't go by your view.

Because of its free, COPIED nature, it doesn't necessarily in turn mean that every pirated version is a direct loss in sales. Many of the people using pirated digital things would not have necessarily bought it otherwise. They simply would have chosen not to use it.

With all the good freeware out there, that's not an excuse. But, go on...

Furthermore, many software tools in the industry are often copied by people (teenagers usually) who can't afford it retail.

Gee- you think maybe they could get a job? Do you want to know how many hours I worked to get my first set of drums? My first guitar? My first synth?

These people learn these tools and eventually become professional enough later in life to afford them. In these cases, it actually HELPS the content producer because that person learned and adopted their product, making them long term customers when they were able to afford it.

It helps the content producer how? By depriving them of income that they could have used to make the product better? But, I digress...

If they dont, its unlikely they would have been able to or would have bought it in the first place, so its not a real loss.

Besides the little punks doing damage to the reputation of the product when they complain on the forums that their crack doesn't work, you mean?

Of course there are lots of cases where the potential was real and something of value is being lost, but its not as simple as outright thievery.

Wrong again...

Have you ever realized that you wouldn't feel it necessary to "justify" this as you're doing if you knew that what you were doing wasn't wrong?

ew

+?