Explosives Found in World Trade Center Dust

[Green Lemon]

On first impressions it seems to make sense that each floor would build up momentum as the collapse proceeded but the opposite is true, with each floor more resistance and more resistance. The collapse should have slowed not sped up. We cant really tell from the video you supplied as to how far that building would have continued to fall if it had 30 or 40 more undamaged floors underneath it.

Also watching your video again you may notice is took that 13 story building about 10 seconds to collapse from start to finish, WTC 1 took 9 seconds. And i think it was a tad bigger

I think you're missing a huge and simple fact though, the more floors collapsed the less resistance would be an issue, as the weight was coming straight down, so each floor added tons of pressure. This would make the fall speed up to free fall speed, not slow down.

Also, people are amazed that it fell straight down, but consider this, a HUGE jet hit it, slightly ripping all the steel beams loose from the concrete around it, at least for a few floors above and bellow impact. So once these start crumbling, which wouldn't necessarily be visible from outside, it would start pancaking, that weight alone would take out any remaining beams. Also, in many ways the larger an object gets in sheer size, the more it's going to be pulled down, instead of responding to horizontal pressure. We're talking about two of the largest buildings in existence, with ten times more support beams than an average building, not a couple major ones, and supporting smaller beams. On impact, those beams hold on the concrete floors was compromised. It doesn't to me seem feasible that such huge slabs of concrete would swerve off a course straight down because of dozens of support beams that have been busted slightly off of the surrounding concrete?

I'm all for catching the government on things that you can, and I really wish the people in office who could have acted to prevent this were found out, (I do suspect that to be the case), but I really doubt any explosives and that level of conspiracy. What makes more sense is as I said before, a planned negligence on the part of those in power who would benefit from this sort of attack. Plus it really is building 7 we should be worrying about IMO.

That nicely sums up my opinion as well.

[Machinesworking]

Come on. Sometimes things are just what they are, even in the USA.

Right, you grow up here in the USA, and we'll let you say that, or should I start making decisions about what your reality is in the UK eh?
We're American, the land of mavericks, we make our own reality! I'm the king of the playground motherfucker!

[UKRuss]

I suppose I would hope that for buildings of that size they would actually be designed to collapse vertically to avoid mass destruction of surrounding buildings. Perhaps our architect could confirm? make a couple of phonecalls to high rise structural engineers etc.?

The construction of the WTC must be public knowledge. Let's investigate ourselves! Abes.com public enquiry team are go!

ps. the reailty here in the UK is: Rain, with long periods of depression.

[pepezabala]

I didn't want to believe in explosives and inside job, but as this is popping up again and again and again... I start to believe in it.

I remember being on a documentary movie film festival in 2003 or so, where they had this movie called "10 open questions" (don't remember the exact name). People were sitting there with mouth open, and we just couldn't believe it. Since then the very same discussion comes up again and again.

Up until now the people that say "nooo, this can't be a conspiracy, this is too big" never had a convincing answer on

- why the "airplane" that fell on the pentagon has disappeared
- why the other plane that fell into the woods has disappeared
- why G.W. Bush's father had a meeting with members of the Bin Laden family right before all of that happened
- etc etc.

[Green Lemon]

I suppose I would hope that for buildings of that size they would actually be designed to collapse vertically to avoid mass destruction of surrounding buildings. Perhaps our architect could confirm? make a couple of phonecalls to high rise structural engineers etc.?

Sorry, not my field. However, in general the amount of thought that goes into how to demolish a building (in the design process) is pretty much zero- we focus on making them stand up.

[ThrowAway]

Please dont fold just because its being presented to you over and over. The reason this theory is dismissed by the entire scientific/engineering/demolition/construction fields in america is pretty obvious, because theres not one sensible shred of evidence that suggest anything else but two planes struck two buildings. The whackos throw out "evidence" that can either never be refuted ie bush was on the phone with bin laden the night of or they post pictures like the one in these threads that dont mean shit and hope to sway people who dont know what they are looking at. This is all bullshit. It is so aggravating to me its unbelievable. Id could easily punch one of these people in the face over it. 9/11 isnt something we watched on tv to all of us. Some of us lost our friends and family, our way of life and sometimes worse.

I didn't want to believe in explosives and inside job, but as this is popping up again and again and again... I start to believe in it.

I remember being on a documentary movie film festival in 2003 or so, where they had this movie called "10 open questions" (don't remember the exact name). People were sitting there with mouth open, and we just couldn't believe it. Since then the very same discussion comes up again and again.

Up until now the people that say "nooo, this can't be a conspiracy, this is too big" never had a convincing answer on

- why the "airplane" that fell on the pentagon has disappeared
- why the other plane that fell into the woods has disappeared
- why G.W. Bush's father had a meeting with members of the Bin Laden family right before all of that happened
- etc etc.

[ThrowAway]

How do you know the planes disappeared? did you fact check this?

[UKRuss]

I sense another internet cage fight coming on.

Mother? Bring the equipment!

[Green Lemon]

I sense another internet cage fight coming on.

Mother? Bring the equipment!

Wait...is the last one over?

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrgh! Avast ye scoundrels!

Ahem, sorry.

[ThrowAway]

Doesnt it strike you conspiracy theorists that maybe 1 out of million experts in the fields are the only ones supporting these theories? Hopefully they sold their books and got paid to speak to you because thats what its about.

[ThrowAway]

ewww it kind of seems I tried to pull the sympathy card. All I lost was a sweet ass apartment in the city and a high paying job that I really cant remember ever doing any work for.

[OvertoneZero]

Even if it's not a conspiracy, it doesn't mean that they're not out to get you!

[beats me]

Coming from a metal worker, all those cuts(except fig 18) are typical of an arc-gouging machine. When were those pictures taken? Could you even reliably give a time frame?

With absolutely no working knowlegde of steel and construction, the first thing I thought when I saw those pictures was couldn't those be the result of the clean up process after the towers went down?

[Green Lemon]

sure they could, they could also be photos of something else entirely. or they could be what they're purported to be. that's the problem with photos.

[LoopStationZebra]

Speaking of photos. (EDS spectra images,actually!) lol.

The pancaking is no mystery.

Unlike towers built before, and in-fact most afterwards, the type and strength of connection between the truss and spandrels/truss and core in the WTCs are virtually identical throughout the building. In fact, prior to the WTC no one had seen such a lightweight connection between the truss ends and truss seats (at both the core and exterior). This is fairly rare among towers over 30 stories or so. The notion that resistance should have stopped the pancaking is plausible in typical high rise construction; where both the core, interior/exterior columns, and connection types get stronger as you near the base. (You see this, for instance, in both the Sears Tower and Hancock buildings in Chicago. You also see it in the new 'world's tallest' - Burj Dubai. The primary reason for this is wind resistance and the need to flex more at higher altitude.) The WTC found a new way to distribute this flex through a giant tube within a tube system. Interestingly enough, the Sears Tower is constructed along the same primary principal as the WTC - the tube. Although the Sears tower stacks/groups tubes on top of tubes.

So what does this mean? Unlike most other towers, where the overall structure AND connections are getting stronger as you go down, the WTC floors were all the same. Pancaking, with or without the help of Super Thermite, is definitely possible. Inevitable, in fact. You have an enormous amount of weight coming down upon...well...the most minimal of connection details. There's NOTHING in place to slow them down. It's not rocket science, and you sure as fuck don't need any Super Thermite or even TNT.

Oh, and I'm an architect as well. 7 years of my life spent in school that I'll never get back; including 2 years of Advanced Material Structures - which dived into a healthy bit of MatSci as well. Green Lemon probably has similar training if he went through a halfway decent program.

Incidently, I've read the Jones & Co document (which is what this thread is about after all). I'm wondering how many folks in this thread have actually read it? I'm one that believes we haven't gotten to the whole truth about 911. Having said that, the report is NOT a 100% confirmation that thermite (sorry, SUPER thermite, lol) was used.

"we conclude that it contains the ingredients of thermite."

"very likely a form of super-thermite."

omfg

The fact that they've only used EDS and not XRD to do the analysis pretty much says it all, really. The difference between the two is night and day. EDS is merely a spectra image. It's a starting point for most Material Scientists. They will use EDS to NARROW the field of possibilities, then run an XRD to get pretty much 99% confirmation of the material make-up. XRD begins the process in much the same way, but adds an ENORMOUS amount of element/material comparison analysis via huge banks of element data. EDS is taking a photo and looking at it very carefully, lol. XRD examines the crystalline structure of a material and compares that to tens of thousands of other crystal structures in a database. Because nearly everything solid in our world is composed of crystalline structure, it's not hard to see how powerful this tool is. It's nothing short of a super fingerprint or DNA database. My recollection of the exact specifics of XRD may be sketchy, so if anyone with real-world experience wants to shame me please feel free.

I am no genius, but I didn't even have to Google this crap up for once. Any first year student who might be required to take even a basic course in either MatSci or AMS will be exposed to EDS and XRD technology. I did eventually do a Google search on the Jones & Co report as it related to the lack of XRD. Oh my. There's a lot of REAL Material Scientists out there who are flabbergasted that XRD wasn't used.

The Super Thermite Theory is exciting and dramatic and makes people drool. NANO! The very word conjures up images of sciFi movies about tiny little robots taking over the world. However, the fact that every one of the authors is a known and committed Truther speaks for itself. (That part I did have to Google as well). Until they are willing to run an XRD or, better yet, let a totally independent MatSci lab take their samples and run the XRD, the verdict is still very much out.