Ableton Forum

http://action.peta.org.uk/ea-campaign/c ... gn.id=3157

time to vote - till may 7. every vote matters!

KILL THOSE DAMN RATS I SAY

Mmmmm Delicious!

As long as we get to experiment on you instead....

As awful as it sounds, animal experiments are a critical part of medical research. Without it research into very important areas would just grind to a halt.

I'll declare my bias here - my partner is in medical research so I guess I see the 'other' side of it. She certainly takes no pleasure in it (in fact she nearly had a breakdown because of it a few years ago) and is very thorough with regards to animal ethics.

optimistic wrote:As awful as it sounds, animal experiments are a critical part of medical research. Without it research into very important areas would just grind to a halt.

I'll declare my bias here - my partner is in medical research so I guess I see the 'other' side of it. She certainly takes no pleasure in it (in fact she nearly had a breakdown because of it a few years ago) and is very thorough with regards to animal ethics.

WRONG, human models are what is crucial to experimentation, far more humans die from using legal drugs than illegal ones.

Animals are not a reliable model for the human model, and it costs human lives and tax dollars.

Maybe your partner (and yourself) should go with the sentiments of that "breakdown" she nearly had, it is an ugly and lazy facet of science that needs to be left in the dust. It has been a fallacy since inception, and grows even more so in the light of emerging alternatives.

Kodama wrote:

optimistic wrote:As awful as it sounds, animal experiments are a critical part of medical research. Without it research into very important areas would just grind to a halt.

I'll declare my bias here - my partner is in medical research so I guess I see the 'other' side of it. She certainly takes no pleasure in it (in fact she nearly had a breakdown because of it a few years ago) and is very thorough with regards to animal ethics.

RIGHT! have a nice day!

fixed

Kodama wrote:

optimistic wrote:As awful as it sounds, animal experiments are a critical part of medical research. Without it research into very important areas would just grind to a halt.

I'll declare my bias here - my partner is in medical research so I guess I see the 'other' side of it. She certainly takes no pleasure in it (in fact she nearly had a breakdown because of it a few years ago) and is very thorough with regards to animal ethics.

WRONG, human models are what is crucial to experimentation, far more humans die from using legal drugs than illegal ones.

Do you volunteer to replace the animals? I sure don't.

If you ever take 'legal' drugs, then yes, you already do!

I don't though.

b0unce wrote:...

fixed

timothyallan wrote:

Kodama wrote:

optimistic wrote:As awful as it sounds, animal experiments are a critical part of medical research. Without it research into very important areas would just grind to a halt.

I'll declare my bias here - my partner is in medical research so I guess I see the 'other' side of it. She certainly takes no pleasure in it (in fact she nearly had a breakdown because of it a few years ago) and is very thorough with regards to animal ethics.

WRONG, human models are what is crucial to experimentation, far more humans die from using legal drugs than illegal ones.

Do you volunteer to replace the animals? I sure don't.

He wouldn't be much use, unless they wanted to test industrial strength lubricant or haemoroid creme.

Part of the problem of taking anything PETA says as "facts" is that you're usually wrong.

If you believe that animal experimentation isn't the single most important part of the development of new medical treatments (besides maybe intelligence of the researchers) then you simply don't know what you're talking about.

You are lucky enough to live in a world where tremendous numbers of horrible diseases have been eradicated or cured or have vaccines, so you can afford to say we don't need them. The facts just don't agree with you (as they don't agree with a lot of the claims made to back up the "health benefits" of veganism)

Groups like Peta regularly make claims like "animal testing is unscientific because you can't know what will happen to humans" but the fact is that all mammals share very similar DNA and basic body functions, and time and time again, when you can show a significant result using rats, it will work on humans too. Diseases like Smallpox, polio, diphtheria, tetanus, whooping cough, measles, and mumps are all basically out of our lives now, despite the fact that they used to all be massive killers of thousands of people a year. This is all thanks to the medicines developed through animal testing. Lots of people with diabetes are quite thankful for the insulin it gave them, thanks to animal testing. You don't have to think about these problems because you don't have those problems, but your position here is profoundly ignorant of the basic facts of the history of medical science, which you have benefited from as much as anyone.

Do you know anyone who works in the field yourself? You think what we should do is just create new drugs and give them to people right away without checking the effects first? Do you think medical science is a bad thing? Are you retarded? Yes, people still die despite the advances of medical science, but that doesn't mean that we haven't DRASTICALLY improved lifespans, and SIGNIFICANTLY reduced infant mortality rates in about exactly proportionate numbers to the level of access to new medicines in a given population.

Maybe we should all just fucking die because you think that killing 1000 rats to save 1000000 people is a bad thing, but I think most people disagree with you, and if there weren't groups like PETA actively spreading lies, even more people would.

This thread is already shaping up to be another fine train wreck.

*looks around for his popcorn*

Anybody in here who doesnt have a degree in biomedical research needs to shut the fuck up because YOU DONT KNOW SHIT.

Not only is animal research absolutely critical for developing medicine, vaccines, experimental surgical techniques and technologies, and all other types of therapies, but it is also THE means by which we understand biological systems in general. If you want to live in the Dark Ages go start a tribe in the woods somewhere. I choose knowledge and progress.

(and yes I work in biotechnology so bite me. genetic engineering FTW)