Ableton Forum

i've been djing with live for a couple of years and put a few tracks together but only using samples i now would like start making my own sound but have never played any sort of instrument and do know what chords,root notes,scales are etc etc...i dont neccesarily want to learn how to play the keyboard because i know you can program the notes in on live but i have been having a look on the internet and jus so many music theory books and people trying to sell products telling you the best way to learn to play the keyboard and half of it is probaly just a con does anybody know what a good starting point would be for a complete beginner.its house music that im interested in producing by the way any advice would would be much appreciated

I would recommend talking to local music instructors and ask them about learning theory. I took some lessons for awhile for piano (I play synthesizer). It's a lot about scales, chords, etc...and I think it is worth at least taking some lessons to get some basic knowledge down. Then if you like actual playing you can eventually get a MIDI keyboard to do your own thing within Live using its instruments or VSTi or instead an actual synthesizer that you like the sounds on/work for your music style.

Mike

On the flip side if you are really lazy, I recommend getting a scales book and getting a general idea of what chords are.

On the flip side if you are really really lazy, I recommend using Abletons Chord and Arpeggiator plugins!

I second finding a good teacher and having them teach you theory and keyboard exercises.

great book I am currently reading regarding music theory from the computer musician's point of view..

http://www.borders.com/online/store/Tit ... 1598635034

and a software called piano wizzard by allegro.. you can import you own midi files and it will teach you how to sight read.. you can adjust tempo, take out labled notes, etc.. works with your midi keyboard..

Since when did learning an instrument or theory cost money?

If you want to pay money, you can, if not, there are plenty of ways to learn. But seriously, get a keyboard and learn to play, theory is stupidly easy that way and clicking the notes in only works when you can play and know what you are trying to do in the first place!

Sage wrote:Since when did learning an instrument or theory cost money?

If you want to pay money, you can, if not, there are plenty of ways to learn. But seriously, get a keyboard and learn to play, theory is stupidly easy that way and clicking the notes in only works when you can play and know what you are trying to do in the first place!

its never necessary, I just find it more helpful to have what I learn tailored specifically to my goals and personal progress. Books are static and they can't give you any feedback.

BTW just hitting notes will give you some nice sounds for sure but its a fool's route to create that which he knows nothing about. It will come to a point where knowing and understanding how note's relationships with each other forms certain sounds and characteristics, how chords and scales are constructed and relate to each other, and more complex things like voice leading and counterpoint and all that will all provide a foundation for excellence in music composition. You can only go so far twiddling around, there comes a point where understanding the foundations of your medium are going to be crucial to create something of excellence.

Aequitas123 wrote:On the flip side if you are really really lazy, I recommend using Abletons Chord and Arpeggiator plugins!

yep. if you're not learning an instrument theory will be pretty pointless to learn. use the above tip and ask yourself questions about what's going on.

your local college should offer beginning music courses for cheap.

jonev wrote:...i dont neccesarily want to learn how to play the keyboard...

I'm pretty sure that if you did learn the keyboard (via whatever method) you won't look back and say...'Damn, that was a waste of my life...!'

... and then there are all the unexpected things you will pick up along the way that will suddenly make sense about the musical language.

gjm wrote:

jonev wrote:...i dont neccesarily want to learn how to play the keyboard...

I'm pretty sure that if you did learn the keyboard (via whatever method) you won't look back and say...'Damn, that was a waste of my life...!'

... and then there are all the unexpected things you will pick up along the way that will suddenly make sense about the musical language.

yeah for real, you will get all your best stuff just by playing it out and letting your fingers do the talking.

I taught myself alot about music from just knowing a few simple things

you know

Do Ra Me Fa So La Ti Do ,right? Sounds silly I know but bare with me

look at a Piano

there are 12 notes that repeat over and over changing in octives right?

you need to know the names of the notes There are 12

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 the 13th repeats
A, A#(Bb), B, C, C#(Db), D, D#(Eb), E, F, F#(Gb), G, G#(Ab)

you need to know there is Sharps of Flat between B and C then E and F.

look at a piano the white keys are the A B C D E F G and the black keys are the Sharps or Flats

Dont let Sharps and Flats confuse you just pick one, Shaprs or Flats and go with those names

I prefer talking about things in Sharps. So we'll got that route from now on, Cool

You'll see a pattern of black keys 2, 3, 2, 3 right

the white key before the group of 2 is C and Middle C is well in the middle of the Piano right?

So know lets think of the Major Scale (which is the minor scale but I explain that in a bit)

the Major scale is the Do RA Me Fa So LA Ti Do

Its 7 notes that the 8th note repeats

let learn the C major Scale

There are 7 notes in the major scale

which is

C, D, E, F, G, A, B, and the 8th is C

1 Do C
2 RA D
3 Me E
4 Fa F
5 So G
6 La A
7 Ti B
1 Do C

you need to know there are things called "Wholes Steps" and things called "Half Steps"

Wholes Steps are moving two key and Half Step is moving one Key

a good example is the group of two black keys are each a Whole Step apart

the two White Keys without a black key in between is a Half Step

There are 12 notes, each note to the next is a Half Step

now lets look at the relationship between the note of the C major Scale
WS = Whole Step HS = Half Step

C D E F G A B C

C to D is a WS and
D to E is a WS
E to F is a HS

here is the pattern in the Major scale

WS WS HS WS WS WS HS

Start on whatever key (of the 12)

Now do the pattern

C Major is the easiest cause its All the white keys

C
WS
D
WS
E
HS
F
WS
G
WS
A
WS
B
HS
C


Here is the another example

C# Major Scale is

C#
WS
D#
WS
F
HS
F#
WS
G#
WS
A#
WS
C
HS
C#

(now on a side note - here is good example of in Beethovens days why they developed Sharps and Flats. You see in the C# major scale we have F and F# and no E note. It was considered improper to name the scale with two of the same letter in the scale, So the exact same scale in Flats is Db, Eb, F, Gb, Ab, Bb, C, Db you see now its DEFGABC right but lets not get confused so we'll just stick with one, and I like Sharps)

Anyway Lets learn about chords

In the simplest way a chord is three notes, The most common are a Major Chord and a Minor Chord.

a scales tells you what the chords are and vise versa chords tell you what the scale is

Lets look at C major Scale

C D E F G A B C

C Major Chord is C E G
F Major Chord is F A C
G Major Chord is G B D

Do you see the pattern?

C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
C E G
F A C
G B D

Each note of a scale has a value of Major or Minor

in the Major scale the 1st 4th and 5th Notes are Major Chord

BUT in this scale there are also minor chord

D minor is D F A
E minor is E G B
and
A minor A C E

C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
D F A
E G B
A C E

See the Pattern is the same

so know lets explore the value of each note of the major scale

C - Major
D - Minor
E - Minor
F - Major
G - Major
A - Minor (this one is called the relative minor I'll explain is a minute)
B - 1/2 Diminished (I know its a bit wierd but It'll make sense when you start exploring 4 note chords)

You might have heard of Modes in Music (Ionian Dorian Phrygian Lydian Mixolydian Aeolian Locrian) in this order correspond to the above

C - Major - Ionian
D - Minor - Dorian
E - Minor - Phrygian
F - Major - Lydian
G - Major - Mixolydian
A - Minor - Aeolian
B - 1/2 Diminished - Lacrian

So here are the modes

C Ionian is the just the C major Scale

F Lydian is the notes of the C major scales where you start and end on F instead of C. Its has a Major value

A Aeolian is the Same, Play the note of c Major but start on and end on A

This scale is a minor scale but contains the notes of C major

Here is where you'll find that the Major scales is the minor scale and vice versa

You just start and end on a different note of the same scale. Which happens to be the 6th note of the major scale

C Major Scale
D
E
F
G
AA Minor Scale
BB
CC
_D
_E
_F
_G
_A



There you go Music theory in a nut shell. This is the theory but really use your Ears,

Your Ears will never lie to you about what you like and what you dont.

I hope I didnt miss anything here so if any of you know more I'd love to hear it

I hope this will help you Jonev

If you have more questions feel free to email me

[email protected]

What do ya think?


(Edit Damn I did all this typing and this message board doesnt recognize my spacing, What up with that?)

Best beginner theory intro I've seen, free too:

http://www.worldofbryan.com/rsg2mt.pdf

As far as learning piano goes, I found the Hanon scales book great for learning your fingering and the basic technique, the rest is up to you and your ideas.

take tarekith's advice... the ravenspiral guide is great and exactly what you describe you're looking for.