Ableton Forum

Sorry to have to start a topic for this but I bled my eyes out last night sifting through the search results to no end.

I'm looking for the thread that had a link to an article where someone is recommending to keep your faders down -6 db (i think).

Anyone recall it?
Thanx!

i've always read about putting individual channels to -12 and trying to keep your master at -6 so an engineer has room to work with. not sure the exact article or link you mention though.

from what i've seen, this is industry standard.

any tv control room runs thier audio at -20 db to peak at -12 Db

from what i've seen, this is industry standard.

any tv control room runs thier audio at -20 db to peak at -12 Db

Hmmm.... that's probably it right there, but ya there was an article I jumped to from a link on the forum which was referencing live specifically. I'd like to read it again.

Thanx for the infos!

You don't need to keep your faders down to -6db (they will vary of course dependent on material), however, the peak levels on your individual tracks should leave some headroom, especially in 24 bit or 32 bit float and -6db is a pretty good level for PEAKS.

You can safely leave 12db more headroom on a 24 bit recording than with 16 bit recordings and not induce noise penalties. It also used to be good practice on analog consoles to have individual tracks lower than group buss tracks or the master, but this is negated somewhat in the digital realm.

Audio for video/movies has an average RMS level of -27db too, allowing for huge dramatic swings and explosions which really EXPLODE and stand out.

ya, you never want to be peaking much more than 6 db on a digital system, or you risk distortion. on most systems, once you hit 0 db, it will clip, and alter your sound.

you can normalize your track after its bounced, or do some GENTLE dynamic effects on your master channel.

Ah... excellent feedback. Appreciate it!

The reason this is coming up is that I'm setting up a template which I want to run with for awhile. Sometimes I'll see my master signal turn red... meaning it's getting pushed to hard right(?)... but all my track levels are zeroed.

The more I think about it the better it seems to bring down all the tracks a set amount (-6db?) not sure if the master should be softened... not concerned with 'mastering'... that's a long way off if ever.

What about Return track levels... do you set those down as well?

Also, you've all posted with different level recommendations... is this subjective to some extent for straight up audio work?

cheers!

Rave wrote:Start with -12db on your faders. Put a limiter on the master if u need the volume/spike protection. Btw the article u read may have been by Tariketh (sp?)

The -12db includes the Return Track Faders?
And leave the Master Fader at 0... slap a limiter if need be?

Hmmm... not sure if it was Tarekith... unless it was him outside of the forum with a different name. His article on basic track building was really a good guide for me though!

Oki... I'll try this out. Have a feeling it's going to be beneficial.

Thanx!

This one?

http://tarekith.com/assets/mixdowns.html

continuous wrote:Ah... excellent feedback. Appreciate it!

The reason this is coming up is that I'm setting up a template which I want to run with for awhile. Sometimes I'll see my master signal turn red... meaning it's getting pushed to hard right(?)... but all my track levels are zeroed.

Do keep in mind that audio volumes add up.
-6dB + -6dB = 0dB
All zeroed tracks just add up to a number above 0dB.

Tracks can go in the red all you want in Live, clipping only occurs when the master hits past 0 dB.

I always leave my master fader at 0db

as mr hoffman says the volumes of each channel add up so if you have 2 channels peaking at -6db then the peak on the master channel will be 0db...

If you need more than these 2 channels then you need to reduce the volume of these channels, by bringing the channel fader down, or adjusting the volume at source.

I find working like this allows me to get a consistent monitoring level without clipping and without constant adjustments on the master fader which I dont touch.

There is no need to mix with the level so hot, turn up your monitors if it is too quiet. after you have finished the mix, bounce it down at 24bit and get it mastered / master it yourself.

UKRuss wrote:This one?

http://tarekith.com/assets/mixdowns.html

That's not it but it's very helpful, thanx!

hoffman2k wrote: Do keep in mind that audio volumes add up.
-6dB + -6dB = 0dB
All zeroed tracks just add up to a number above 0dB.

Tracks can go in the red all you want in Live, clipping only occurs when the master hits past 0 dB.

I'm just starting to 'get' this concept Curious how do you have your levels set?

ashtonron wrote:I always leave my master fader at 0db

as mr hoffman says the volumes of each channel add up so if you have 2 channels peaking at -6db then the peak on the master channel will be 0db...

If you need more than these 2 channels then you need to reduce the volume of these channels, by bringing the channel fader down, or adjusting the volume at source.

I find working like this allows me to get a consistent monitoring level without clipping and without constant adjustments on the master fader which I dont touch.

Nice... thanx for the info...

Asked this before but what about your Return levels... leave them at 0? Guess I'm a little confused why all the track levels are softened but the return track levels would not be? I have a couple things going outboard in my return tracks if that makes a difference.

thanx much for the input everyone!

was that what you were looking for ?
http://www.wiretotheear.com/2008/01/25/ ... er-at-0db/