How To Warp A Whole Track with relative Success

[FadY]

here it is : http://lesonduplacard.free.fr/divers/warpTutorial.pdf

[stockylocky]

Fady thanks soooooo much that really helped, now to put it into practice

[FadY]

The example I show is one that works well, sometimes it is a little bit more tricky but well... this is the principle : tempo is not changing within the song (usually) so you should not need more than one yellow marker.

[shere.kaan]

I have a related question.

So I'm importing full songs for setting up a DJ session with electronic music. I'm using the complex pro warping method while importing. Usually there is no problem with beat syncing to the global tempo but sometimes it just doesn't work. When the warping is completely off for a track I'll get maybe 100 warp markers. The only way I know how to fix this is to manually go into the editor and double click on each and every warp marker in order to clear them. This is very annoying. Please see my questions below.

1) Is there a command or shortcut to delete all warp markers from a track?
2) Is there a command or shortcut to re-analyze a track for warping? For example, if I want to choose a different warp mode, I only know how to by deleting the track from the library and then changing the warp mode and then re-importing the track.

Thanks in advance.

-Shere Kaan

[FadY]

I have a related question.

So I'm importing full songs for setting up a DJ session with electronic music. I'm using the complex pro warping method while importing. Usually there is no problem with beat syncing to the global tempo but sometimes it just doesn't work. When the warping is completely off for a track I'll get maybe 100 warp markers. The only way I know how to fix this is to manually go into the editor and double click on each and every warp marker in order to clear them. This is very annoying. Please see my questions below.

1) Is there a command or shortcut to delete all warp markers from a track?
2) Is there a command or shortcut to re-analyze a track for warping? For example, if I want to choose a different warp mode, I only know how to by deleting the track from the library and then changing the warp mode and then re-importing the track.

Thanks in advance.

-Shere Kaan

1) click on one warp marker then ctrl+a to select all such markers and finaly press the del key
2) ?

[gizze]

I am looking forward to having a bash with this.

When I do it I always use a reference loop, a simple beat and hat, and then warp the new track over that one, so I know every track is always going to be perfectly lined up with the one it is being mixed into.

I do however set a yellow marker at the first beat and then every 64 bars. I would guess each track takes 2 minutes to warp, so not too bad, but this looks interesting.

[Akbarron]

thanks for this, it makes so much sense. Before i knew this i spent hours moving yellow markers around and it getting more and more out of time.

[yush]

that method is basically setting the bpm very accuratly rather then warping... by stretching a marker near the end to line up nicely you're stretching the entire track around a number of beats - ie, setting the bpm

a couple fo useful tips with this:

- you dont' need to edit out the start of the track to the first beat... just drag marker 1 to the first beat

- if further warping is needed then the quickest way to do this is by dividing the song in half, placing a warp marker there, then divide each the half in half again, place another warp marker, etc etc until its accuratly warped. this will always be as quick, and usually quicker than going through left to right and doing a warp marker every X bars

xeb----RIGHT ON.
Take the first marker 1.1.1 and drag it left or right to make it beatmatch to the track you are mixing into --- if only one never had to use a mouse for this!

[djczar]

good job man!!!!!! could you do a video tutorial of it??
thanks in advance

[MvssiahMvzik]

Nice tutorial, but shame on you for recommending maximizing the waveform, the loudness war is more of a negative than anything. Would you rather have your music the loudest, or would you rather have your audio retain its dynamic range? Id rather have quality of sound than quantity.

[FadY]

are you talking about my tutorial ?

[djevon]

Ok room I have live suite version 8.3.
I read through the whole thread about warping long tracks with relative success.
Is it still recommended to warp tracks from right to left as in from the end of the track to the beginning of the track?
And also once it is warped and has found the correct tempo of the long track I click save, will I be able to use the save warped track in other live projects. I don't have re warp the track again right?

Cause I want to Dj using live with Allen & Heath xone k2

[louietyj]

I don't really know what you mean by not being able to warp Dave Clarke - The Wolf. I tried it myself (taken from YouTube) and it's a very steady tempo of 141.28bpm with the first beat at 200ms...

I originally posted this in the general forum but thought I should have posted it here.



I see many posts on the troubles of warping a whole track for DJ'ing.

Ok so thsi may be a longish post so I apologise in advance. But after many hours of taking the long route marking every bar an extremely time consuming process I have discovered a MUCH EASIER WAY.

The following applies to any Dance material. House, Techno, DNB, Hip Hop etc. Im not talking about Beatles tracks or music recorded with live musicians. Those type of genres take a little longer...unless the track in question had Tony Thomson (X Chic) on drums.

A couple of interesting points to bear in mind before I begin.

1. When recording from vinyl REMEMBER no matter how well calibrated your decks are the tracks will drift slightly. This makes warping a little bit more difficult but the upcoming method still works. AND DONT FORGET keep the pitch control a 0%.

2. If recording from an external CD (although why anyone would need to do this I dont know). But the same applies. Some older CD players do have wow and flutter. If your recording from old 8 track cartridges your buggered.....

3. If you have MP3's and convert to wav....especially if the MP3 was lower than 96kbps your going to have some trouble with warping a track. I dont know what it is but converted MP3's are a little more problematic when warping.



[/b]To Begin

1. First use an audio editor like Sound Forge, Wavelab, Cool edit etc. Preferably extract the material straight from the CD within your computer. If you have to record from vinyl record directly in to your audio editor. DONT record in to Cubase, Logic, or even Ableton Live for that matter.

2. Edit The Start Point Exactly. I cannot emphasise this enough. But also dont panic about it. If your slightly off warping a whole track is still easily achievable. If your way off then your going to have trouble. But some tracks start a little weird. (for eg, a quarter bar intro with reverse cymbal or some other musical tone to catch the listeners ear) Do you really need that? If not edit it out. After all your probably not going to mix that during your DJ set.

3. At this point its also a good idea to maximise your track in your editor. Im assuming most of you have some sort of mastering tools. I use Waves L1 or L2 and maximise everything at -0.01db. Some tracks particularly older ones may need a little more attention as they sound a little weak compared to todays loud and proud stuff. Then I will bring out something like Isotope Ozone to add some sparkle. But be careful. Just check with one of your favourite CD's to make sure your in the right ball park for loudness and EQ. As well all know theres nothing worse than a low cut record. The beauty of using Live is that we can have all our files at the currently fashionable I want it loudest

4. Save your file under a different name like Leftfield 'Planet Phunk' Forged/cool/lab". This means you still have the original untouched, maximised version.....not that your going to need it if all goes well. Important Many current CD's dont need any Maximisation or mastering whatsoever so DONT just become a mastering engineer just for the sake of it. Take a look at Dave Clarke's "Devils Advocate.....NO MAXIMISATION REQUIRED there.... Just look at the waveform on many of todays CD's and you will see they are totally flatlined. Of course if your recording from Vinyl your going to have levels all over the place so some sort of levelling/maximisation is required.

Note I maximise everything and many DJ's have commented on how punchy the sound is when IM DJ'ing so its worth the effort

WARPING THE TRACK IN LIVE

Open up Live and drag in your edited/maximised track to the arrangement page NOT THE CLIP VIEW. Wait for live to draw the waveform then click on the WARP BUTTON (Obviously). Now this is where a bit of guess work is required. The Original Tempo Of The Track. The stuff Im working with is usually around 128-145 BPM. I always set the master tempo to 135. Thats live's master tempo not the tracks tempo I usually have an idea of the original tempo of the track I am about to warp and in the little box under the Warp Button I attempt to guess the tempo of the song with a little trial end error. I dont use any sort of BPM counter

Important When you are doing this switch on Lives Metronome...It goes CLICK clik clik clik . I know that most of you are doing this, but maybe some of you are using a drum loop to match tempo DONT DO THAT. I did this for a while and it simply doesnt work as well as the metronome.

After some trial and error with guessing the tracks original tempo I usually get it right or as close as possible. If the metronome and the track are in sync for even as little as 8 bars I know im in the right ball park and believe it or not I am ready to start warping. Even better if you are getting 16 bars or more without any drift. I would also say that some tracks are spot on for the entire track (in sync with the metronome of course). But this is rare.....I dont know why but I have an inkling why...later I will mention this

WHen I first started warping tracks as soon as the metronome and track went out of sync Lets say bar 17 for eg I would then double click the warp marker at bar 17 Turning it yellow and move it so that the beginning of bar 17 was in time with the metronome. Of course this meant by the time I got to bar 21 I was out of sync again.....So on and on I went warping every four bars. During my early attempts I was practically warping every bar which as you know Is a very Time Consuming and frustrating Process......There had to be an easier way

The easy Way

Ok, lets say you have the original tempo fo the track as accurate as you can get it. You dont have to be 100% accurate because with this method you will eventually get the exact tempo as it changes when you move the warp markers. The mistake I was making and I believe many others is that we are warping the track from LEFT TO RIGHT. The more you warp from left to right the more out of sync the track is later on so more warping is required Very annoying I always thought and knew there had to be an easier way. IM Now warping from RIGHT TO LEFT......

Heres what I do now: I let the track play along with the metronome for up to three quarters of the whole song. You will obviously notice that the track and the metronome are way out of sync by the time you get to bar 127. So what I do is find a spot For eg the end of a break down and move the warp marker 127 so that it hits the first beat of bar 127 in the song. Important I DONT make this marker yellow I Simply Move it DONT MAKE YELLOW...Yellow is not good

The first time I did this I was amazed that with one simple move of one marker I had practically got the whole track in perfect sync from the beginning of the song right up to bar 127, 133, 145 etc etc. This method has even worked when moving the last marker possible where there is still a beat and the whole track is in time. Many of my tracks dont even have a single yellow marker. So the point is WARP FROM RIGHT TO LEFT.

The Benefit of this method is obviously it saves an incredible amount of time, and it keeps the integrity/groove of the track in place. If your warping every bar your definitely losing the feel of teh track especially if the track has a certain swing feel to it.

Nothing In Life Is Perfect
Some tracks are just plain difficult. Even using the above method I still get great results moving the marker much later on in the track (remember not marking it yellow......Yellow Not Good....... then the rest of the track is way off. I cant explain this (again I have some ideas later). so then I have to start warping every few bars. Some tracks I still have to warp every couple of bars but this is extremely rare.

At the end of the day the method described above works better than any other method I have tried. I have warped around 200 tracks and can usually warp a whole track within 5 minutes. Sometimes less if the track is spot on all the way through. There Im just checking the metronome is in sync.


Some interesting points

1. Those difficult tracks that simply go completely out of sync for no reason. Why?. I was warping a track recently everything was fine right up to bar 117 and then train wrecking city. I couldnt work it out and it annoyed me so much i called the artist. He told me he edited out a section in sound forge......Ahaaaa Obviously to his ears it was accurate, and to mine for that matter, but its obvious the slightest shift in timing can upset the applecart. So just be aware of this sometimes. In saying that its still not a problem. When this happen obviously insert the yellow marker and then later on hopefuly every four bars you will have to insert/make yellow markers every four bars. Maybe less, maybe more. This is when we have to go Yellow.

2. Another example above was when I was still using Vinyl and at a certain point in the track at exactly the point I wanted to mix in I could never get the track I was about to mix in to stay in sync. I knew the label called them up and the guy told me that they edited the track themselves.....Same deal as above

3. Pre DAW Tracks I was recently warping some early R+S material and was having a hellish time. using the above method I was in sync but at some points for no reason the metronome was a little off. I can only put this down to the early sequencers using hardware samplers drifting slightly. Kinda obvious really because no early Atari sequencer would trigger a kik drum or loop 100% accurate all the time due to the inherent midi delay. Not noticeable as such to the human ear but when warping you will notice it, or should I say your computer program will notice it and make it glaringly obvious to you. Dont Worry About This If you were playing these tracks from vinyl the drift is there. I have quite a few tracks where the metronome is not spot on and its not a problem when mixing. After all NO DJ on the planet could mix 2 records with 100% absaloute sync.

The Impossible to Warp Tracks
Ok nothing is impossible but I was trying so very hard using every method to warp 'Dave clarks' The Wolf. I dont know what the hell he was doing but nothing I did would get that track warped with success. Yes I could get it in time but the feel and sound was completely lost. So there are some tracks that simply wont warp no matter what you do.

Finally

I think many of us are a little to obsessed with warping tracks so that they are 1000% accurate. Of course accuracy is important but remember if the metronome is 98.5% there (of course 100% is better) then you will be fine.

I hope this post helps some who are struggling with warping tracks and I certainly dont mean to come across as aloof. And for those that know how to do this I dont mean to be 'Mr Cool'. I was just searching for warp methods and could find anyone mention the above method.

Apologies for the long post

peace

[jestermgee]

Maybe Live got better in the last 10 years from when he first tried it...

[gameboybin]

Guys please help. After warping my song get slowed down so it get sync with the beat. But there is a problem. My song that i wrapped sounds very choppy ( stuttering) and i don't know how to fix it. Guys please help!!!