Ableton Forum

Anyone using Live 8 with Apogee Duet? I may buy today, but I've read only bad reports with Live 8 in the forum search. Does any one have a current report?

I'm using the Duet with 8.0.4 with no issues on a MBP 2.4ghz c2d with 4gbs of ram. I run most sessions at 100 samples buffer size at 44.1khz. That's using plenty of plugins and anywhere from 12-24 audio tracks.

The sound quality is awesome, and the volume/input gain control is sweet.

Some people complain about the breakout cable, I don't really see why. Considering the quality of the interface, I'll gladly take the breakout cable over a higher cost/smaller footprint.

My ONLY real gripe is that I am surprised I can't get lower latencies out of it.
I was able to run my Motu Ultralite at 32-64 samples buffer size pretty comfortably, so I could get a little lower latency out of it. Not a huge deal, but I'd prefer to run as low as I possibly can.

At 100 samples, the latency is more than tolerable, so no bitching here, just minor griping

I say go for it.

What latency do you get at 100 samples (for in/ out / both)?

Depends on the sample rate- latency in samples / sample rate = latency in seconds. So for 44100, that would be 2.26ms.

I have the Duet and I love it. The Maestro software it comes with for managing levels, etc. is better than anything else out there. For instance the knob on the Duet can be used as a MIDI controller. You can also configure it to mute the headphones/monitors in various combinations when you press the knob in. The only problem I have with the Duet (kind of significant) is that there are no drivers available for Windows. You'd think this would be a non-issue because it's a class-compliant Firewire audio interface, but it's a no-go, at least under XP.

OT:
I've considered switching over to Windows from time to time because Live is the same on both platforms, and all my VSTs/AUs are available on both. The only difference should be that on Windows I can take advantage of a ton of additional VSTs (free and commercial). But my experience with audio on Windows (latency, crashing, etc) has been so mind-boggling bad that I've stuck with OS X for the time being. Having to reboot to do non-audio tasks is also a pain.

My total latency at 44.1khz is:

4.35ms in + 4.56ms out +1.5ms of driver error compensation= 10.4ms TOTAL latency

The headphone amp gets really loud, but doesn't distort unless completely maxed out. Real nice.

I would post a screenshot but I'm supposed to be working right now, haha.

Hope that helps

Im considering the Duet to replace my RME Multiface 2. With the multiface, I kept my buffer anywhere from 256 to 512 and did not notice any latency issues. I use A LOT of plugins in my sessions...minimum of 5 sampled instruments and 10+ effects from EQ to reverb with iZotope Ozone on the master track. Will I experience latencies by fault of the Duet?


Im used to PCI solutions. Had the Emu 1820 for PC and Multiface 2 + HDSPe PCI for Mac. Now that I sold my Mac Pro, I'm hoping the Duet will be as competent on my MacBook Pro (Unibody).

Call me latency sensitive, but sometimes I record guitar and vocals with microphones at 48kHz 24-bit, and the slightest bit of latency throws me off completely. I've been using an RME Fireface 800 lately, and even though it's plugged into the FW800 port, when recording 2 sources at that sampling rate, I find the latency to be just barely passible for a comfortable & natural recording experience from the musicians perspective.

Anyhow... sounds like the Duet wouldn't cut it for me. It probably does okay with 44.1 16-bit, but that's not my thing.

I plan on using just midi for plugins as well. I may do some vocals, but I'm more concerned about using a lot of plugins like Kontakt, Philharmonik, East West Play, etc. With the Duet do the job right? Is there any performance improvement for the latest MacBook Pro?

I use 44.1khz 24-bit.
You'd get LOWER latencies using 48khz at 100 sample buffer size, but it'd be a little more taxing on the CPU.

Well, when I was still using Live 8 it was a charm. The latency and lack of balanced output isn't THAT great but the awesome pres, DAC and integration makes up for it.

Also, if you're annoyed by the breakout cable, just make your own box... Apogee discloses the pinout of the cable on their web site.

So I will notice a significant latency difference betweeen the Duet and RME Multiface?

Hidden Driveways wrote:Call me latency sensitive, but sometimes I record guitar and vocals with microphones at 48kHz 24-bit, and the slightest bit of latency throws me off completely. I've been using an RME Fireface 800 lately, and even though it's plugged into the FW800 port, when recording 2 sources at that sampling rate, I find the latency to be just barely passible for a comfortable & natural recording experience from the musicians perspective.

Anyhow... sounds like the Duet wouldn't cut it for me. It probably does okay with 44.1 16-bit, but that's not my thing.

hi, Hidden Driveways,

I wonder, if you get lateny, you monitor through Live while recording? Is this for using effects while recordig? Wouldn't there be any latency with direct monitoring?

m

JBlongz wrote:So I will notice a significant latency difference betweeen the Duet and RME Multiface?

That depends, what was your total latency (in milliseconds) with the Multiface? You said you ran a buffer size of 256 to 512, but you didn't say what sample rate or what your latency was in milliseconds.

I have never used any of the RME stuff, but I've heard a lot of good things about their latency performance.
For me, 10.4 seconds total latency with the Duet is not a problem at all.

If you were playing completely in the analogue world, with no digital latency whatsoever, and you had to stand 30 or 50 feet from your amp, most people would NOT be so thrown off by it that they couldn't play anymore. You'd adjust your playing and just get on with it.

The nax latency I had was 7ms. I usually tried to keep it at 5ms. I was using Multiface 2 with the new generation pci 2.0 compliant RME card with the latest firmware. I always keep the sample rate at 44.1KHz 16bit. I know PCI will always be faster than Firewire, but I need an ultra portable bus-powered solution. I've been reading comparisons with the Duet, Motu Ultralite and Profire 610. I gather that the Duet's sound quality is best, Profire is impressive, and Motu is solid. But I'm very worried about latencies. That is my biggest annoyance.

JBlongz wrote:The nax latency I had was 7ms. I usually tried to keep it at 5ms. I was using Multiface 2 with the new generation pci 2.0 compliant RME card with the latest firmware. I always keep the sample rate at 44.1KHz 16bit. I know PCI will always be faster than Firewire, but I need an ultra portable bus-powered solution. I've been reading comparisons with the Duet, Motu Ultralite and Profire 610. I gather that the Duet's sound quality is best, Profire is impressive, and Motu is solid. But I'm very worried about latencies. That is my biggest annoyance.

I'll assume you mean 5ms TOTAL latency, not just input latency.

For what it's worth, I've owned both an Ultralite and now the Duet, between the two of them, here's my opinion.

Ultralite: *slightly* lower latency for me (64 sample buffer size, around 8-9ms total latency), good sound, very stable with Live 6 and 7 (didn't have it to test with Live 8 )

Duet: *slightly* higher (100 samples buffer size, 10.4ms total latency), excellent sound quality and mic pres, very stable with Live 6,7,8

I suppose if latency is your deciding factor, go with the Motu. I had the ultralite and before that, an original 828 and both of them were great interfaces that were rock solid.
Personally, I'm happier with the Duet, the sound quality is absolutely worth it.

Either one will serve you well.
Can't speak for the profire as I've never used one.

LandWhale, What type and quantity of plugins do you use, if any? 10ms of latency sounds like a lot. I play the keys and how it will not throw me off after a couple instances Kontakt and SampleTank.


Perhaps I will try the Duet for 30days.