Ableton Forum

Just finished recording a full album with Live 7 on a laptop using M-Audio Fastrack Ultra. I made it through but it was sort of a pain; lots of audio glitching during all phases of operation and futzing with the interface. My question is this; would I get substantially better performance with a desktop system and a PCI card interface? I've tried Firewire as well (Echo Audiofire 2) and that's an improvement but still somewhat flaky. I still get dropouts and glitches with only a few tracks of audio and midi even with the buffer size set way high.

My current setup:
Lenovo T61 with Intel T7700 2.4 Ghz
3 Gig Ram
Live 8
Echo Audiofire 2
AAS Analog
Voxengo plugs

If there's some megathread on this topic that I've missed please point me to it.

Thanks,
Phil

Generally, a desktop will give you better performance because the disks are faster, the ram is faster, and the CPU will be way faster. In addition, PCI or PCIe is still the standard to beat with respect to lowest latencies. Firewire and USB2 come close but don't hold up.

Having said that, you can get really good performance on modern lappies, with 7200rpm sata drives, and multicore chips. If you use a PCMCIA or Expresscard slot, then you'll do really well.

Keep in mind that to get the same performance on a lappie as a desktop, you'll likely pay 33-50% more.

There is a lot to discuss on this topic, and no mega thread, but lotsa small threads.

In my experience, using a laptop Core 2 Duo with a USB sound card (M-Audio Fast Track Pro) and a Quad core desktop with a PCI sound card (Echo Gina 24) - the difference is night and day. You will get a much better performance out of the desktop hands down and a PCI card - way more tracks, Vst, etc. Therefore, I use the desktop for production and the laptop for gigs.

Also, like Nebulae wrote, desktop components (multiple output video cards, hard drives, etc) are usually a lot cheaper on the desktop.

Damn, I thought this was going to be some sort of transformers-style battle thing!

Maybe I should go have another doob...

Laptops are good for performing, airplanes, meetings, hotel rooms, girls.
Desktops rule! I just got a 26" 1920 x 1200 pixel monster screen!
I ain't gonna prodooz on no fokkin laptop!

i got a dual core laptop with 4 gigs ram that i bought. runs perfect. got a battery extension for twice the life meanwhile it props up the back an inch for the fan to breath.

i have an lcd monitor that i plug into it when i need a bigger screen. and i plug in a keyboard too for more relaxed editing while at a desk.

the ONLY downside i have found with laptops is how many usb slots they have. you can buy a usb hub however, and most keyboards have usb slots in them too.

plus i can edit my songs wherever i want.

After my first laptop, even desktop systems can be more powerfull, i would never go back for the convinience and possibility to play with live, live.

Laptops - consider this ... if using firewire, which chipset are you running? Almost NOTHING uses the Texas Instruments FW chipset which is the most compatible and hence best performing, most laptops, including higher end ones, put Firewire in more as a after thought for people with digital cameras, so cheap out on the firewire chipset, often using integrated expresscard/FW/SDcard type arrangements which are seriously poo in comparison.

The Fast Track Ultra is not the best USB interface around, although the Fast Track Pro is a bit better. If you don't need a lot of I/O then the Native Instrument Audio Kontrol 1 is a decent interface and if you have the big bucks, the RME Fireface UC is the dogs nuts. USB 2 audio interfaces will be getting more plentiful and better, given that Apple seem to be phasing out firewire and their long term audio interface partner APOGEE have just released their first USB2 interface.

The other thing to consider - Vista - are you running Vista? It is much harder to optimize Vista for low latency performance than win XP. You can get Vista to be useable with a certain amount of tweaking in most cases (poor drivers can still kill you though), but XP is a better performing o/s on PC for low latency. Even those running Vista 64 with 64 bit programs such as Cubase 5, Sonar 8PE or Reaper, for all their addressable RAM, still get hampered on the low latency front.

Ideally you would have a desktop and a laptop, but if you can only buy one you have to choose between mobility and extra raw power. The best configured lappies can still do a heck of a lot and run many tracks and plugins.

Expresscards - (most modern laptops don't haver PCMCIA) - the Echo Indigo gives you good low latency performance but is hampered by having no pres or XLR inputs (great for low latency playback though). Or you can consider something such as RME's HDSP or Multiface on a break out box from the Expresspress card slot but it's pricy because you have to buy the expresscard controller and then the actual interface which plugs into it seperately.

One more piece of advice - do all your tracking dry - no effects. When you start adding plugins that increases CPU load and some plugins induce latency which the system compensates for. After you have recorded everything, then step up your latency buffer (for mixing you don't need low latency 256 sample buffers or less, 512 - 1,024 is fine, as stated before, some plugins will add to this anyway) and things will be a lot smoother. Or Live has the advantage in that it's INBUILT plugins (not 3rd party AUs or VSTs typically, with some exceptions) do not incur latency or CPU load if you turn them OFF. So you can audition a part with FX, then turn it off to give back some CPU if you need to add more tracks.

^ great advice +1

i use the desktop for music creation, the laptop for performance...

Bright Morningstar wrote:i use the desktop for music creation, the laptop for performance...

Yup, me too. Best of both worlds.

I also take my lappie with me when I'm buying gear, so I can run it into my setup and hear how it will sound. This works great with Guitar Rig when I'm testing basses or guitars.

leedsquietman wrote:Laptops - consider this ... if using firewire, which chipset are you running? Almost NOTHING uses the Texas Instruments FW chipset which is the most compatible and hence best performing, most laptops, including higher end ones, put Firewire in more as a after thought for people with digital cameras, so cheap out on the firewire chipset, often using integrated expresscard/FW/SDcard type arrangements which are seriously poo in comparison.

I was actually surprised to find that the Audiofire2 worked fine with the built in Firewire port on the Lenovo. I don't have a great deal of need for mobility with my music so I'm tending toward a desktop. I need the speed more than the portability.

what firewire chipset is the Lenovo running ? Look in Control Panel Device Manager IEEE1394 - it is probably Ricoh, Via, Agere or O2, or 'generic' - if it is TI that explains why it's running better, but a TI chipset runs better than any of the ones mentioned before - significantly better in some cases.

2x UAD-1 and a UAD-2 won't fit in a laptop either...

Did a whole album on a MBP. No glitches, no lack of power, 60+ track sessions on the internal drive, plus I can surf, play WOW, rip CDs, and watch movies at the same time. I have a desktop as well, but if you buy the right laptop there is no need to compromise.