Ableton Forum

Does anyone have any advice on turning down track levels on session view. When a mix becomes too loud I need to turn down all the levels down simultaneously - which is very easy now thanks to live 8, however often my tracks have volume automations and this obviously causes a problem for keeping tracks in the same balance. I've tried using a utility effect to counter this but I can never seem to get the same balance. This is a particularly pressing issue for me as there's a track I've just finished which I want to be mastered, but at the moment there is no headroom, and I can't turn down all the tracks to keep the balance exactly the same!

Any help would be really greatly appreciated.

Have you tried grouping the tracks? The automation should still work on the individual tracks, but the group master track should give you ability to do what you want manually.

In addition to that, you could experiment with the Limiter.

I know this doesn't help you much with the current situation but have a read of this thread over at the dubstepforum.

http://dubstepforum.com/viewtopic.php?t ... f076c7ac1b

Ever since I've read that, its improved my mixes ten fold and I found I never get into these kinds of situations anymore like I used too.

As for you current situation I'd say the utility plug would be a good choice or the group tracks thing already mentioned.

Why didn't the utility plug work for you?

Yeah, your best bet is to just use a utility on each track set to decrease the volume by the same amount. If you ALT drag the same one to all your tracks,you don't even have to retype the volume decrease each time.

As I do most of these automations by hand it isn't so easy to copy them with a utility. Also it is very messy trying to copy the utility as I rarely find it compensates properly. Also the utility only goes to -35 which means you can't fade from silence properly for some tracks. In this case I can get away with grouping the tracks, so I'll be able to do that. But sometimes I'll want to automate the level of a group... I'll put in a feature request for ableton to change automations in sync with what you do on session view. It's such a mess.

Thanks for the link 3rdordertrauma but it's not really what I'm after. The problem is generally a global one for multiple tracks that will occur often rather than this isolated case which concerns headroom.

Well the utility plugin is a start, but as you said -35db is not -inf. So what you do is build a rack with a utility and a hp filter. Work with the macro mapping so 0-35 is just the utility, and below that you sweep out the sound. Run your channels through a few busses and drop your volume rack on each one for automation.

samuelp13 wrote: This is a particularly pressing issue for me as there's a track I've just finished which I want to be mastered, but at the moment there is no headroom, and I can't turn down all the tracks to keep the balance exactly the same!
.

i'm definitely not the digital audio nerd, but it seems like everyone is always saying how with the 32 bit float internal, you should just be able to turn down the master fader to get whatever headroom you need for the mastering engineer to work with

??

longjohns wrote:

samuelp13 wrote: This is a particularly pressing issue for me as there's a track I've just finished which I want to be mastered, but at the moment there is no headroom, and I can't turn down all the tracks to keep the balance exactly the same!
.

i'm definitely not the digital audio nerd, but it seems like everyone is always saying how with the 32 bit float internal, you should just be able to turn down the master fader to get whatever headroom you need for the mastering engineer to work with

??

hi, sorry for the late response - I was away for a week. This sounds interesting, but I don't understand how it could work really?

Also how do I automate the macro so that it sweeps out the sound after -35dB?

i just mean if your engineer wants 6 dB then turn down the master fader so that you peak at -6

longjohns wrote:i just mean if your engineer wants 6 dB then turn down the master fader so that you peak at -6

thats how ive always done it

the bitdepth doesnt change based on head room

dynamics do though

but

3db of head room on a 32bit file equals the same dynamics as 0db head room on a 24bit file

and since we can really only comprehend 16bit dynamics then it doesnt matter

in digital audio we are dealing with round numbers, everything gets rounded to the nearest bit, anytime anything gets done to the audio it gets rounded again

between recording of the original and the final output your sample gets rerounded 30 plus times probably

creating headroom with the master fader is only going to round it once more, i think you will be ok with that

While you can certainly turn down the master fader to gain extra headroom, its worth considering that you are still distorting your master bus. If youve got an eq or other plug with metering on the master bus you will see that the input is overloading and that bringing down the master fader only affects things post fader. On occasions I've found that it sounds WAY better when i bring down each track before hitting the master bus so that I'm not distorting the plugins. Granted many plugs have 64-bit internal resolution these days, but its worth checking for yourself to see if it makes a difference.

Jim

Atardecer wrote:While you can certainly turn down the master fader to gain extra headroom, its worth considering that you are still distorting your master bus. If youve got an eq or other plug with metering on the master bus you will see that the input is overloading and that bringing down the master fader only affects things post fader. On occasions I've found that it sounds WAY better when i bring down each track before hitting the master bus so that I'm not distorting the plugins. Granted many plugs have 64-bit internal resolution these days, but its worth checking for yourself to see if it makes a difference.

Jim

if im not mistaken

there is a built in head room in ableton and its native plugins, if you take a unmastered 0db sample and put a utility on the track you will hear surprisingly little distortion until you get past 6db boost

we arent talking about having everything full blast and pulling down on the master fader to get it to 0db, we are at an acceptable 0db with everything sounding good and then pulling back 3db

Yes, but Im not talking about just ableton plugins. The same goes for group busses where third party plugs are inserted and are distorted - plugins that may not accoodate any extra headroom. In any event, its just good gain structure to work this way and will make your mixes sound better.

zalo wrote:

Atardecer wrote:While you can certainly turn down the master fader to gain extra headroom, its worth considering that you are still distorting your master bus. If youve got an eq or other plug with metering on the master bus you will see that the input is overloading and that bringing down the master fader only affects things post fader. On occasions I've found that it sounds WAY better when i bring down each track before hitting the master bus so that I'm not distorting the plugins. Granted many plugs have 64-bit internal resolution these days, but its worth checking for yourself to see if it makes a difference.

Jim

if im not mistaken

there is a built in head room in ableton and its native plugins, if you take a unmastered 0db sample and put a utility on the track you will hear surprisingly little distortion until you get past 6db boost

we arent talking about having everything full blast and pulling down on the master fader to get it to 0db, we are at an acceptable 0db with everything sounding good and then pulling back 3db

Yeah, thats how it is... There are about 13 tracks playing at once at some times, so that's why it adds up. Everything sounds good though. I'll just use a utility to solve it

Thanks guys!

Tarekith wrote:Yeah, your best bet is to just use a utility on each track set to decrease the volume by the same amount. If you ALT drag the same one to all your tracks,you don't even have to retype the volume decrease each time.

I think you missed the point of what Tarekith was saying.

Add a Utility at the end of all effects to track 1. Turn down the gain by -3db. Copy this Utility plugin to every other track.
Your per track volume automation will still work as you drew it, with the added result of the track being -3db quieter.
Once this is done on all the tracks, your Master levels will have been reduced to fit in the green. If not, try a larger value than -3db.