Ableton Forum

I much prefer to work out the structure of my song in the session view, which means recording snippets of live guitar and bass in the session view. However, I can't figure out how to get the session view to do a 'count in' when recording.

It's a pain to have to wait 3 or 4 beats after I start recording to get in time with the drums I have looped on another track (since it starts immediately and of course I can't hit record and play the instrument simultaneously!). Then I have to go and strip that time off the start of every clip. It's gotta make my clips bigger too for no good reason.

Am I missing something obvious? Thanks!
-Mike

mike why aren't you using the metronome setting quantize to bar, 2bars or what ever and then letting the metronome be your count in.

::mic-minimal:: wrote:mike why aren't you using the metronome setting quantize to bar, 2bars or what ever and then letting the metronome be your count in.

If I understand your idea, that still leaves a silence at least equal to your quantize setting at the beginning of your recording. The metronome can precount but you still have to wait before starting playing ?!?

ah i see, you're right

create a metronome clip with wathever click sound you like.
set its follow action to 'play next', with the number of bars you want as a precount.
if you set the 'record on launch' in prefrences to on, the clip shall start recording straight after your precount.

another thing, is that if you play guitar (or keys), you should definitely use a pedal to start/stop recording. it's not that expensive, and is VERY useful.

peeddrroo wrote:another thing, is that if you play guitar (or keys), you should definitely use a pedal to start/stop recording. it's not that expensive, and is VERY useful.

I have the same problem as Mike. There really should be some sort of count in function. But this is a great idea.

Can a regular expression pedal be used for something like this?

EDIT: I mean MIDI expression pedal. I also have a FCB1010 floorboard, I guess that would be sufficient...just need to find out how to make it work with Live.

peeddrroo wrote:create a metronome clip with wathever click sound you like.
set its follow action to 'play next', with the number of bars you want as a precount.
if you set the 'record on launch' in prefrences to on, the clip shall start recording straight after your precount.

I tried this in live4 and it doesn't work. It just keeps replaying the metronome clip. record on launch is set and the metronome is set to trigger the next clip....but there isn't one so i think it just replays itself, being the last clip.

Ideas?
-Mike

if you're recording midi, just put a blank clip in and turn overdub on.

bensuthers wrote:if you're recording midi, just put a blank clip in and turn overdub on.

I'm recording an audio track, not midi. Does this not work unless it's midi?
-Mike

Hello! How's everyone?

I've just bought-registered-installed and fired-up Live4 a couple of days ago - I'm totally new to it - so bear with me please... and, after having said Wow and Oh-my-God half a million times I find it time to react to this count-off-metronome discussion.

This is principally directed to the Live programmers and other folks who may want to chime-in on this "count-off" topic, which in my humble opinion is in real need of being developed and applied within this wonderful and beautiful program - Live4 should be accessible to all sorts of musicians: the ones made of flesh and bones and who wear calluses on their souls and fingers and are in dire need of a decent count-off, as well as the virtual ones, (or) should I call them musical assemblers, architects, construction workers? They don't need any advance warning and just dive-in... But Hey, they have calluses too, right?!

The topic is the "count-off" in Live4, which is sorely missed....Where, when, what, who and why !???

Remember this is Live "version 4" we're talking about, right? There are no words or excuses for this ommission!

Every performing "live" group or "live" musician (almost) always uses the method of counting off as a lead-in into the actual performance (3/4, 4/4, 6/8)... well, symphonic orchestras are perhaps an exception because they're following a "director" and have most probably sufficiently rehearsed and heard the music to know how it should sound at the onset and what to do about it.... but we "street and home" musicians need the time to grasp a "breather" before making the plunge into what is sometimes called the "Unknown"...

The programmers at Ableton's have forgotten one very elemental and essential musical tool namely accessing the bar lines within the negative domain. And this says a lot about where they're coming from because their creation (which I truly admire by the way) is more about assembling and moulding bits and pieces of musical elements than about Music per-se - with a capital M. It's hard to believe they've simply left it out, it must be something deeper - designer's philosophy or something or the other.

I'm certain they will look into it in the future and come up with a simple programming formula that will allow us, more traditionally trained folks, to perform a simple count-off. I mean every "other sequencer" in the world has instituted bars in the negative! Ahead of the music or deep inside, way in the middle as simple lead-in.... makes you wonder.

I've had Live4 for three days now and already this lack of a "count-off" has truly become my one and most important aggravation with the program - it pisses me off! Being a performer as well as a composer I NEED a count-off that's as easy to handle as pushing a Start or Stop button and not a convoluted off-hand rocket-science technique that only makes a musician's life harder than necessary...

Come on Ableton! In the control-bar, the "Positions" available should also be allowed to be read in the "minor-mode"... musically speaking, and for the math-heads among us "in the negative".

If I've missed it and this "feature" is actually situated somewhere on the interface, this letter is proof of my total ignorance of Live4, at this moment - and may I be excused, please?

Thank you, and cheers to you....

Alix.

could you just make something clear guys:
how many of you want to hear while they are on stage the beautiful sound of Live's metronome prior to starting a tune?
i mean, if i went to such a concert, i think i wouldn't even wait for the fourth click, and leave the room.
now, if you want to have some tempo indication there's many ways to achieve that: - create a clip that's better sounding than the metronome, and set its follow action to 'stop' after the number of bars you want.
- you can use the metronome tap function (tap 4 times, Live starts on the 5th beat at the correct tempo).
-if your metronome sound is not monitored, just let it play.

i mean, i don't see why ppl complain about this countin function, with a little bit of imagination, it's easy to overcome.
now for automatic recording at the end of the count-in, well, maybe you'll have to launch the recording yourself. is that such a big deal?
Live doesn't provide automatic recording for audio clips. you'll have to do with it.

just think that for a lot of users, it's actually nice that there is no 'before' or 'after' the beginning of a song. you can make your song start at any scene, any place... you can even have 10 songs in the same file. now how would you do that with other DAWs? have a count-in at bar 89?

This is mostly relevant for studio

but personally I find recording in the session view it's so easy to create clips of each good bit that I just do everything in one long messy take and then copy the clips down a slot to make clips of the best takes of each riff - it's so easy that way I have no desire to sit there trying to get it right on any count in - just hit record and play each part of the track at my lesure until i get a take I'm happy with then just copy the clip and set the start and end and it's there - you have to get out of the linear tape style punch in/out thinking - live works differently and you don't need to record that way - dont forget once you create clips of your chosen bits you can jst copy/paste into the arrange - meaning you don't have to worry about the fact that playback will always be from the start of the clip if you're working in session, (making it harder to edit etc)

I find this way you get natural takes too because you can create your clip from any section and not have to get it spot on for the punch in

you can even then pice bits together in the arrange and consolodate and then copy the new file into the sessio again so you have a perfect neatly edited clip to trigger in session view

if you're then worried about hard drive space (recording unneccessary stuff) just consolodate the clips once you've decided on the takes and delete the originals. It's so easy this way I cant see the point in adding a feature that only encourages people to record in the old, less useful way

peeddrroo wrote:could you just make something clear guys:
how many of you want to hear while they are on stage the beautiful sound of Live's metronome prior to starting a tune?

Sorry ppeeddrroo but that is completey irrelevant. I appreciate your suggestions for a solution but to ridicule those of us who prefer a count-in is not the way to go.

For me the lack of a decent count-in is a problem because, like Alix points out, it is quite common in both live performances and home recording settings to use some sort of count-in at different points. Now I resort to an old, wind-up metronome and believe me it's no fun.

As for ridiculing the temposetting at a live gig - have you ever been to a rock concert where the drummer does NOT start by tapping the tempo with his sticks in at least half of the songs? It might be more rare at a jazz concert but you'll see at least one of the musicians nod his head or do some sort of count-in before the song starts. It really is *basic* stuff.

I am a classical musician by training but now play mostly jazz and funk. I've used Magix Music Studio, FL Studio and Tracktion (all have count-in record metronomes).

I want to learn about electronic composition and Live is incredible in that sense, and one reason I bought it was for the MIDI and audio recording features, plus the revolutionary approach to arranging.

I am thus new to Ableton Live (Yes!) and am loving it (Yes!). But I too am surprised at the lack of a count-in. The metronome is there but has little value for me because it is the pre-starting point I need.

What is needed is a customisable count-in, with record activated on at 0. Nobody is saying you will need to use an audible metronome at your Live gigs (come on, that's plain silly). There could be a visual cue of sorts (a blinking thingy, a meter, whatever).

I am sorry to see people attack requests like this. Ppeeddrroo is not the worst, and he suggests alternatives, which is constructive.

It is a completely valid request and I hope Ableton finds room for it in an upcoming patch or at least the next release. I think it is reasonable to assume that Live will be getting a larger user base with the release of v4, and you'll see more people coming in from more traditional sequencers to do composition, and they will ask "where is the count-in metronome". Hey, we're already here.

That said, I appreciate a challenge and am trying to use ppeeddrroo's suggestions and learn how to use Live the way it's supposed to be used.

forge wrote:It's so easy this way I cant see the point in adding a feature that only encourages people to record in the old, less useful way

It's a very good tip and thank you for it. Your way of recording is hardly the "new" way, though...been doing that for years (no, I'm joking). But when you need to record a clip on the fly a count-in is essential, as is automatic recording activation.

yeah, i know my answer was maybe too much flaming. apologies for that.
but look, Live is not the traditional DAW, and works differently.
when writing my answer, i didn't think of working in the arrangement view. but it's the same anyway.
i think the solution is to create a metronome track. you might not like it, but to me it's even better, as it enables you to have a metronome sound that can fit your song (like, i don't know, piano notes, or cymbals, or water drops, or wathever sound you like). then work on the follow action to make your 'pre-count clip' start and stop when you want.
as for automatic recording, you can achieve this: check in the prefernces that "record on launch" is activated, and remove un-necessary slot stop buttons. you'll still have to stop recording anyway.
i think the best solution to start.stop recording is to some good remote controling (foot pedal controls are amazing for this kind of stuff).

but most of all, try to think outside the box, and you'll find solutions for this count-in problem. and probably nicer than what you used to do (like create a count-in clip that you can move at will before the punch-in point).