Ableton Forum

Recording midi in 'arrangement view' is still one point in live, which is quite stressful to me ( especially compared to other sequencer)


1. When I work in 'arrange view', I often want to record midi directly in an existing midi clip (overdub). I think overdub in session view is nice, I would like to have a similar option in arrange view.

Video for that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXB9z9YEPEw





2. The current way of overdub in live does delete notes sometimes [*], because you often have to consolidate them after the recording to get a 'whole' new midi clip.

-> a clip after the overdub recording, you have to consolidate it.


[*]one example: your clip has a note, which starts before the 1. --> consolidate deletes this note -> example: http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7255 ... 223515.png

No one thinks this is an issue? Or is the problem not clear? I'm really curious. Almost every other sequencer does a better job at this particular point and I often record notes direct into the arrange view.

edit: spelling...

Yes, this is an issue. I rarely use Ableton's arrange record.

I think something like Auto Consolidate after pressing stop would be nice.

I also don't use this mothod very often, but you are right, this is not the best way Ableton has solved it.

Try to stop recording between the notes maybe.

but +1 for a better solution!

jlgrimes: live 8 has a bit improved in this area, but Consolidate is not a solution (see my fist post). I assume most midi user know the problem from deleted notes due to the function Consolidate, so I was brief about this problem. If not I would be happy to show it to you.

I also like to see my midi editor/notes) when I overdub something. I think it's fine in the session view and similar to the midi recording in other hosts.

push.

it's really just standard "sequencer" midi recording abilities in arrange view, nothing too fancy. it's a everyday show stopper for me and it's a absolute basic feature in logic, cubase etc.

+1

I started a thread about the same thing, but with automation.

painful

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=126110

mr.ergonomics wrote:Recording midi in 'arrangement view' is still one point in live, which is quite stressful to me ( especially compared to other sequencer)


1. When I work in 'arrange view', I often want to record midi directly in an existing midi clip (overdub). I think overdub in session view is nice, I would like to have a similar option in arrange view.

Video for that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXB9z9YEPEw





2. The current way of overdub in live does delete notes sometimes [*], because you often have to consolidate them after the recording to get a 'whole' new midi clip.

-> a clip after the overdub recording, you have to consolidate it.


[*]one example: your clip has a note, which starts before the 1. --> consolidate deletes this note -> example: http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7255 ... 223515.png

One of the frustrating things about Live sequencing functionality that I constantly battle is:

1. If I want to record "on the fly" loops, Session View is infinitely better.
2. If I want to punch in on a bad part on a long clip, Arrange View is infinitely better.
3. If I want to automate something by recording it Arrange View is infinitely better.

Therefore, SessionView works great until I want to punch something in or record automation.

Using Live in Arrange Loop mode is extremely counterintuitive for me (if you want to overdub additional layers after each loop pass). It don't even seem like they designed it to perform that way, while other sequencers don't seem to have a too much of a problem with me.

+1000 for correct overdubbing!

I agree about the problem, but I'm not sure that better overdubbing is the solution.

The way I work in Logic (lots of folks do this) is to use "New Track With Same Instrument", then loop-record the new stuff, then use "Merge" to effortlessly put the two clips together. That is a really efficient way to build up instrument tracks. Loop-recording the overdubs saves you from having to manipulate the transport so much, and merging can be done with one keystroke.

A proper "merge" of MIDI clips in Live would go a long way toward replicating this functionality. In Live, you would have a couple of MIDI tracks feeding a separate software instrument track. You would record the original part on one MIDI track and overdubs on the second MIDI track. This is how I presently record MIDI overdubs in Live, but I merge the clips manually, by highlighting a span of time (painting over all the notes to be sure that they are captured), then copy and paste them into the destination clip at the same starting time point. It's not terrible but it's fiddly, and it doesn't deal with MIDI CC data (like sustain pedal). It requires three tracks to Logic's two, but that's not so bad (you can group the tracks to keep things tidy).

-Luddy

+1 for proper overdubbing.

abiah wrote:luddy, the new track with same instrument way is more convoluted to the more basic feature being requested, its really a workaround. Duplicating an entire instrument (thereyby doubling cpu impact) and adding steps & clicks is hardly more efficient than just clicking overdub and playing into an exiting clip.

hi, in Logic the second track plays into the same instance of the instrument; there is no duplication of instrument. it's the same as opening a MIDI track in live and routing it to an existing instrument track, except that in Logic both new and old tracks can send MIDI (note) data to the instrument.

EDIT: OK, now I understand what the OP means. He simply wants for the new notes to be added to the existing MIDI clip instead of being put into a fresh MIDI clip. That makes perfect sense.

The current implementation gives you something like a poor man's "comping" or multiple-take facility, in that the new clip contains all the takes you did. And the problem is that consolidate truncates/deletes notes that overhang the beginning/end of a clip, so when you crop the overdubbed material and consolidate with the surrounding stuff you lose notes or parts of them.

If Ableton fixed the consolidate operation so that it kept notes that overhang the active area of a clip, seems to me that would largely fix the current implementation, i.e., you could simply consolidate without a bunch of fiddly editing and you'd get the result you want, by and large. A true overdub mode like session view has might be better though, as the OP has suggested...

-Luddy

This is a reason I find it hard to work harmonical in live compared to other daws, I really have to push this again.

...really needed here, just want to advertise this. overdub just the midi cc is also very important imho. this kind of basic tasks are too cumbersome in live.

+1

Having replace and overdub options in both arrange and session would be a great thing, indeed.

RN