Ableton Forum

I tried the weekend the frst time live 8 on stage...no plug ins..no midi clips involved..and of cause..after 30 minutes it was crashing..

Ableton says there is no problem but because crash problems seems to happen quite ofte regarding ti this forum i like to know why..

Anybody that is not apple user had crashes?

And while the apple crashes i heard so far about seems to happen on various laptop types and os x versions...

anybody had crashes on os x versions below 10.5.7

is it possible that a bootcamp partition can cause problems? is this maybe a comon factor in the crashes? probably not..but to get an idea..

anybody with crashing live 8 problem that has no bootcamp installation?

Iv'e had crashes on every 8 beta released till now.
Live beta 8.0.5b10 seems to work better.
But had some odd things going on in 8.0.5b10, like sampler loaded on a channel, inserted a multiband rack, and sampler poofed.
Live 8 runs slower then live 7 does.
But i trust the developers of ableton to fix all this.

Oh yea...i run ableton on a xp sp 2 quad core pc.

3phase wrote:I tried the weekend the frst time live 8 on stage...no plug ins..no midi clips involved..and of cause..after 30 minutes it was crashing..

In this case i can only imagine you're using the virtual midi kung-fu from your usual studio setup also on stage? I can perform whole night with it without a single problem.
As i said weeks ago: This particular virtual midi routing setup you use seems to trigger the bug you're suffering from and that's why it is so hard for us and others to recreate your problem technically, as you never explained in detail what exactly is involved in the routing, what you route from where to where and what is being transmitted there...

Cheers,
Dom

sorry i ve explained my routing in detail..its nothing special... just a thru conection to the expanders because live dont provides propper midi thru... god knows why... probably to make hardware feel like plug ins so that we dot suffer when using plug ins..


Its however prooved sofar that live is crashing regardless of the mentioned midi kungfu.. it crashes without midi routers in the background as frequently than with... it dont matters if you use bomes or midi pipe or nothing

there is no pattern i can get hold off.. just that involving midi clips seems to increase the rate..actually i was wrong..ther was one midi clip running in the live set ..triggered by a scen launch but routed nowhere...

So opposite to what i stated in the beginning there was a midiclip involved.. but i cant say if that triggred the crash..

So back to the facts..crashes on live 8 happen
and they happen on windows aswell

So its probably not related to 10.5.8 that is actually running better than 10.5.7

In general it appears that live 8 is not as stable as live 7...

And you cant claim all the issues to bad third party plug ins or midi kungfu of stupid users or even bad karma..

You have a problem there ..and you should find the reason..

if it would be easy to find you would have solved it allready in the betas i guess...

In your changelogs its not mentioned if you have adressed the issue... nevertheless the newer betas seem to be more stable..

But this might be just by accident.. again..wright after a gig there is more silence in production and you work with smaller projekt files..

anyway a flaw of live that you cant reload while playing..so you need to create monster sessions with 100reds of clips...what might be involved in the crash situation aswell..

Still no information about how you route from where to where and what kind of messages are going through.

Another shot in the dark: Do you make use of the aggregated device function in the OSX audio midi setup?

Cheers,
Dom

no., no agreate bla bla.. its realy just a thru connection... input port one of fireface to output port 2 fireface
is it too simple to understand? its no kungfu..just midi thru from the keyboard to the expanders...

and it has nothing to do with the crashes.. forget about my midi routing..this is defenetly not the problem..

I worked for a while without and had the same crashes ...

Input port one of the Fireface to Output port 2 of the fireface.
Sorry, but how should this explain your midi setup to me?

What then? What kind of keyboard? What kind of expanders?
Connected how? What are you doing? What are they doing? And, most important:

"... and what kind of messages are going through"

Again: What is connected to it and what kind of messages are you routing through?
Boy, it can be really hard and exhausting to work on technical stuff with you.
I've been asking the exact some questions now for over 1,5 months.
Normally, things like this are solved within days.

Enough for today, see you tomorrow!

Dom

dont call me boy.. i am 44


and again..for the not so gifted...


it is crashing aswell without any midi devices attached ...

what does this says us about the relevance of my external hardware setup?

3phase wrote:what does this says us about the relevance of my external hardware setup?

That there still isn't enough information to determine if your current routing setup is the culprit. For example, you could be wiring sysex into Live by just having MIDI inputs enabled in your preferences.
This could be a cause. Even when you're not running MIDI, you haven't clarified if you're still using the RME. In which case you are still using MIDI.

sure..the audiointerface is connected.. and the apc is conneced.. and i use simple instances.. i use midi..but the external routings via midi pipe are inrelevant for the crashes..

I have explained my setup before... and its really a bit german to fill in all the forms again for your satisfaction...

I wonder if questions like ..do you have a bootcamp installation or what external mididrivers are installed should be more relevant?

3phase wrote:dont call me boy.. i am 44

Ah, the subtleties of the English language...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/boy

...—used interjectionally to express intensity of feeling <boy, what a game>

3phase wrote:sure..the audiointerface is connected.. and the apc is conneced.. and i use simple instances.. i use midi..but the external routings via midi pipe are inrelevant for the crashes..

I have explained my setup before... and its really a bit german to fill in all the forms again for your satisfaction...

I wonder if questions like ..do you have a bootcamp installation or what external mididrivers are installed should be more relevant?

Wonderment is a great thing. By providing answers to the questions you deem relevant, you're getting one step closer to a fix. Quote the post or email where you detailed these settings you talk about and you're another step closer.

I mean, you created the thread. Lets do something with it.
I got Osx, I got complex MIDI setups, I got MidiPipe and Max.. And on top of that, I actually enjoy crashing Live because I equally enjoy being a pain in the ass till my issues are fixed. So I can totally relate with you and duplicate most of your setup.

Its not that I want Live to be buggy, but for me personally its still a development process. Live still isn't what I wanted it to be when it was Live 3. This may soon change with M4L and that only motivates me more to haunt Dom and Alex with my issues. Because I want a stable app to work in.
If we're talking about strange routings and loads of 3rd party MIDI stuff going on in the background, I'm definitely a match to help Live crash.
Help us help you

3phase wrote:no., no agreate bla bla.. its realy just a thru connection... input port one of fireface to output port 2 fireface
is it too simple to understand? its no kungfu..just midi thru from the keyboard to the expanders...

and it has nothing to do with the crashes.. forget about my midi routing..this is defenetly not the problem..

I worked for a while without and had the same crashes ...

no offence but if I were you I would not argue the questions support asks you..
relevance of asked questions is not the issue here..

have you tried using the current beta to track down the bug?
the built-in bug reporting tool might be usefull to them..?

i explained my setup allready and ableton was closing down the support because i was not willing to answer more stupid question and install live 8.04...
Keep the user busy because we cant provide answer.. good ol callcenter tactic... but in relation to other companys a real bad support...
i dont even bother to ask for support.. never did.. i only mailed them on request of the dom..they prooved to be useless in the past allready.
I rather get infos in the forum .
but here are only 2 types of people... the faboy ..ther is no problem fraction... and the it crashes but we dont know why fraction..


Its actually funny that more and more the stability question gets on the table.

anybody likes to have a look in the beta forum? crash crash crash...


Is it possible that i just was a bit early with my crash report and the big wave of crash reports is just coming?


Are there people that really never had a crash with live 8 and used midi clips?

This is a question i want to have answered because you can ask me what

i send thru my midi interface..it really hurts to answer such questions..

But its no sysex..and even if... it shouldnt crash a DAW.. its crazzy.. in the year 2009 a main DAW is fearing sys ex data...

oh my god :-/


Ableton is really funny... sometimes so brilliant..and in other regards really stupid.... its hard to belife that the software is done from the same people..the dummest midi implemantation in the worls in live 4...but realy smart fx racks and so on...

clever ideas for groove design... but uearthy quantisation algrythm...
the most stupid search engine for files on the planet but ofsetdelays for multipe midi interfaces...

great control concept but forgotten return track selection... and no plan from side of ablton to fix that soon...


Its a bit chaotic image, like a company that is disolving...became to fat to early maybe... eroding from inside.. still a genius spark...but burried under a layer of semi functional officers and false prioritys...
makig the program ready for any shitty 3rd party plug in but not beeing able to handle sys ex or even a propper midi thru

oh oh... i would like to be a fan..but since live 4 its impossible...


Its to bad that opcode studio vision ceased to exsist..this was a software that was really smart done from the beginning to the end...

In case anyone has missed it, this is a fantastic free MIDI Monitor app for OSX. It lets you spy on all the MIDI traffic at your hardware inputs, and also see what your software is sending to your hardware outputs. I've found it very useful. I recently had a situation where installing some M-Audio driver caused my Fireface real problems - all sorts of rogue "MIDI Port Reset" messages where flying around. Using MIDI Monitor I was able to prove my problem wasn't in Live 8, but in MIDI-land instead.

hope this might help!

http://www.snoize.com/MIDIMonitor/