Ableton Forum

the verdict.


8 channels might be a bit much.

Not enough knobs to make a good 'dj' controller.

timothyallan wrote:Not enough knobs to make a good 'dj' controller.

Huh? You've got 4 banks of 8 knobs up top plus the automap knobs, plus the cue level knob. It has plenty of knobs.

Right. Have you ever 'actually' DJ'd with the APC?

Please tell me how you would fade one track into another using a 3-4 band EQ for each track. Also make sure to include how many times you have to switch banks in order to adjust another tracks EQ, and how you would adjust each tracks eqs simultaneously

The first 14 years of my dj career were strictly vinyl. In the last two I've gone from vinyl to using Serato, then CDJs, and now I'm hooked on using Ableton Live with the APC40. I've heard a lot of good talk, and I've heard a lot of bad talk. My personal opinion is that it rocks! A way different set of skills to master, and it frees you up to do a lot of different things not usually capable using just two tracks and two turns(or cds...). I find it compliments what I've learned over the years. You still need to know how to mix, need good track selection, timing, etc. Yes 8 channels are a lot, but you can set it up how ever you're comfortable, use a couple for mixing tracks , maybe one with acapellas, one with some loops, your own basslines, synths, whatever. More of a full on unique performance. I'm sure you've gone to a party and heard djs back to back dropping some of the same songs, but with Ableton and the APC40 you have more control of the "pieces" of the songs, chop them, loop them, rearrange them, make the same track sound way different than the guy before you. I'm still new to using these, >1 month deep, but the unit is quite intuitive, the software easy to use and navigate, and I'm having more fun than I've had in years. Well recommended.

And cue definition of DJ internet fighting in 3....2....

Not trying to start anything, I'm just saying the APC is a good tool for a dj to use, however you want define dj. It might not be ideal but it is versatile.

Yeah, I hear you.

It's just for "DJ"'ing A/B (sometimes C) old school style, it's not a good controller. If you really want to use it well, you have to evolve as a DJ... as you've found.

timothyallan wrote:Right. Have you ever 'actually' DJ'd with the APC?

Please tell me how you would fade one track into another using a 3-4 band EQ for each track. Also make sure to include how many times you have to switch banks in order to adjust another tracks EQ, and how you would adjust each tracks eqs simultaneously

yeah someone I know has one and after a few weeks with it he was really starting to lose the buzz - mainly due to the way teh sends work - he showed me and I can see that would be really frustrating

I'm getting pretty attached to the VCM 600 - it really makes a lot of logical sense for actually playing with Live

I don't think I'd really need a clip matrix either - without seeing the clip names you end up having to look at the monitor anyway, so it seems a bit pointless

last night i had 8 tracks. 2 groups of 4 . each group went into a channel in my mixer. so i do have some eq control. the problem is you find yourself compelled to mix out tracks before they even got started .... do we need to hear 35 tracks in an hour?

either i will go back to my preset before apc40 . 4 tracks. 2 groups of two to keep it simple. or i might try and set up an eq system on the apc so i can use one channel on my mixer. I will be able to use the second channel for the sends fxs.

abletontrainer.com wrote:
I don't think I'd really need a clip matrix either - without seeing the clip names you end up having to look at the monitor anyway, so it seems a bit pointless

For DJing, possibly, but it's the possibility of launching several clips simultaneously that makes
the clip matrix so attractive. Actually, I'm thinking that, unless you need an "absoulte"
crossfader, the BCR 2000 might be a better choice for the DJ.

sporkles wrote:

abletontrainer.com wrote:
I don't think I'd really need a clip matrix either - without seeing the clip names you end up having to look at the monitor anyway, so it seems a bit pointless

For DJing, possibly, but it's the possibility of launching several clips simultaneously that makes
the clip matrix so attractive. Actually, I'm thinking that, unless you need an "absoulte"
crossfader, the BCR 2000 might be a better choice for the DJ.

I've rocked the BCR at many a gigs, and it is really, really good. Especially if you do all the fancy hacks which let you use all the system buttons as midi buttons. My only gripe is that a. it's not USB powered... all those LEDs come at a price! and b. having to use knobs for track levels... can't slam them up and down easily

timothyallan wrote: My only gripe is that a. it's not USB powered... all those LEDs come at a price!

I'm not sure being bus powered is always a good thing anyway though - I have noticed a couple of times with the VCM600 that when I'm using it bus powered I get weird glitches where it suddenly doesn't do what it's supposed to. I was also helping a friend trying to get his Remote SL zero working recently because it was behaving in a really weird unpredictable way - after messing about for a painfully long time with it I suggested trying with a power supply and it fixed it instantly.

This was on his last generation G4 Powerbook 1.67 and my very recent Macbook - maybe a MBP would have more reliable USB voltage

but I actually think the voltage on my Macbook is good because I have an external HD enclosure that is bus powered and didn't work at all on my old HP notebook or my girlfriends 2 year old Macbook, even with the 2 USB plugs plugged in, but on my newer Macbook it works with only one plugged in

so I'm really wary of relying on anything bus powered

sporkles wrote: For DJing, possibly, but it's the possibility of launching several clips simultaneously that makes
the clip matrix so attractive.

I'd use scenes for that

I'm usually not a huge fan of using Live as a DJ software, but I gave it a go last weekend with the APC and I thought it was a lot of fun. 4 decks are enough for me, so I created fixed (manual) mappings for all 16 encoders, giving me 4 vertical rows of Gain, Hi, Mid and Low EQ (+ 4 bass kill switches on the buttons underneath). That was on bank 2 of each encoder section. The first bank of the upper encoder section was mapped on the sends (= 2 sends per track), whereas the first bank of the lower section was left unchanged, so that it still auto-maps on the currently selected device. I used track 1, 3, 5 and 7 for the actual decks. The other tracks were left blank, so I used the faders and buttons of those unused tracks for other things like crossfader assignments, delay time, Beat Repeat triggers and so on. Lots of possibilities here, but still quite easy to use. Plus the Akai encoders feel great. Fast and precise EQ tweaks on all 4 decks whilst going mad on the crossfader were not a problem. Although the built-quality of the APC is very good compared to most other controllers, I still have to say that you can't compare it to a high-quality DJ mixer (that refers to the faders and all non-rubberized buttons of the APC). IMO the Vestax controllers feel much better in that department. That having said, the APC is still good enough and it has the button matrix which is extreme fun if you create some additional loops from your tracks and then improvise with the loops, some effects and whatnot. Very inspiring.

Best,
Nico