Too many ideas to finish a track...

[sporkles]

It's a bit of a paradox that what I love about Live is also what makes it so difficult for me to finish a
song: when working on a project, Live's session view makes it soooo easy to come up with new ideas and stuff,
but I almost invariably end up with so many nifty loops and sequences, that I simply think "hey, cramming
all these ideas into this single projet is silly, when there are in reality the foundation for three or
four discrete songs in there." I have an "ideas" folder, where I tend to drop all the clips that I'd like
to save for later. So, basically, I can always come up with track ideas, but it's very hard to actually
finish a track, cause what I'm left with is too "bare bones".

Does anyone else have this problem?

BTW: just thought I'd mention that 8.0.4 is pretty solid now, after I identified the problematic VST.
Aside from Live's native stuff, I'm only rocking Reason, Sylenth Uno and CamelCrusher.

[UKRuss]

I've changed recently. Gone back to arrange view for track production, then snipping them back into clips in session for live reproduction.

Arrange view forces you to think on structure and therefore, i get mroe tracks finished.

I have to say some never do and remain as clips for live use, that never get arranged into a finished track, i think thats OK too.

[Dexes]

Yeah I know that, I've also got a folder full of projects that I started and then when I made a nice loop that didn't fit in quickly saved the project, and then went to work on the new loop (or saved the loop and continued to work on the original project, but usualy the new one gets done first - atleast until another great sound comes that wouldn't fit with that)

But if I'm working on something that really grips me I tend to stick with that. Sometimes I see that as a kind reference to how much I like what I'm working on, If it's good, things like that don't distract me. If a new loop pulls me away from the original project, well mabe the first one wasn't so great...

But from time to time I just browse through that folder and then find something I dropped months ago thats really nice and then take that up and get alot more out of it that I would have, had I continued working on it at the time.

D

[UnCL0NED]

Session View is very nice to play around in... Especially with the APC40!
I know how you can get stuck with a lot of loops and no songs after a few hours of messing around in Live if you stay in Session View.
As soon as I hear a loop for a potential song I force myself to record the loop in the arrangement view and start working there from that point on. As UKRuss says, it forces you to think about the arrangement / where the song can head to, rather then looping it over and over.
That's the thing with loops... They're loops; little circles without an actual beginning and end.

[emef]

aye ukruss and uncloned are both right, gotta get out of session as soon as ya got a good bit and get the bugger arranged
or it goes to loop hell

[sporkles]

Yeah, you know, I've been thinking about this myself: I've been way too focussed on getting the
song laid out in scenes, rather than simply getting it structured in Arrange. Session view is
great for combining clips in various ways, but it seriously does take focus away from track
progression. When I first got into Live, I ignored Session completely - I just didn't get it. It
seems I now need to re-acquaint myself with traditional sequencing...

[kraymon]

just take all ya clips to a club and bosh out a live set then

[Tarekith]

I wrote this for you:

http://tarekith.com/assets/arranging.html

Yes, you.

[necho]

I used to get stuck in session view. The way I get round it is to compulsively hit the TAB key every time things start to get stale. I find I can keep things moving if I flip between views a lot.

[DrXparaMental]

I wrote this for you:

http://tarekith.com/assets/arranging.html

Yes, you.

Those are excellent perspectives Tarekith. Thank you.

[SubFunk]

in those cases, i usually just hit 'record' and jam the clips away... that is the real & unique beauty of ableton live to me.

if, the result is urgh... i do another jam.

[sporkles]

I wrote this for you:

http://tarekith.com/assets/arranging.html

Yes, you.

Ah, yes - I remember you posting that before too. I did skim through it back then - might have to revisit

Thanks!

[emef]

Yeah, you know, I've been thinking about this myself: I've been way too focussed on getting the
song laid out in scenes, rather than simply getting it structured in Arrange. Session view is
great for combining clips in various ways, but it seriously does take focus away from track
progression. When I first got into Live, I ignored Session completely - I just didn't get it. It
seems I now need to re-acquaint myself with traditional sequencing...

i also use cubase and for the longest time i was stuck in session view on live
i couldn't finish any tracks in live till i forced myself to use arrange
i liked how different session was from cubase but the arrange page is similarish that i couldn't hack using it
i used to get so far in session then export to cubase and finish there
silly really
i put the time in with arrange in the end and hardly use cubase now (althogh some blame for that is steinberg removing fxp/fxb export in cubase)

[Big V]

I figured out lately that constantly switching between Arrange and Session view keeps things going, because you don't get stuck in one particular way of Arrange or Session view thinking.
The great thing about Live - and the thing I love most about it - is that it offers many possibilities to work with it, you just have to figure out which one suits you the best and then try something different and gain new perspectives.
It is like when you create a painting but suddenly realize that you don't have to use the brush all the time and you can create interesting stuff by just throwing a tube of paint on the canvas or taping rags of carpet to it for creating new structures.

Usually I'll start working on a 'project' with jamming on keys/guitar by myself. If I get something good out of it I'll record it as clips into Session view, play it in a loop, jam a little bit more to it and begin to add other stuff.
It's just about trying things out and looking what could happen.

Then I'll draw a line and check what I've got so far. Maybe I've already gained three parts out of the jamming stuff so I can record it right into Arrange view. Or maybe I've just one part but different tracks that are supporting it in some way.

Now the question is, what it exactly is that makes up the essence of the project so far.
Like if you already have all the parts that make up a normal song structure you'll have to glue them together in a way that an organic fabric can develop. If you only have one part you'll might want to consider if a second part is really necessary or if building things around that part to take it to other dimensions might be better, maybe cutting it into tinier parts and working with them could also be nice.
It's also a question of what style of music you want to create, so you have to figure out where the essence of the project will lead to. That is the point where a project becomes a real tune.

By that time, when you should have internalized the parts of the project, it might be a good idea to just turn away from the computer and to go out for a walk, slouch on the sofa or to do the dishes and to sing the parts over and over again, to hum them and to think about them. Let them develop in your head. That may sound silly to you, in a way it really is, but it could work out perfect.

Johannes Brahms did the same. After he woke up really early in the morning, he drank a cup of coffee while smoking a cuban cigar, then he went out for a 2 hours walk in the woods where he usually developed his ideas.

Or just try to listen closely to music which you think of might be similar or - even better - complete the opposite to your 'project' and look how things were done in there.
Then try to combine it in your head and to go back to your 'project'. It is important to give things time to develop when you got stucked and also it is important to always get back to one's work.

Best, Flo

[aqua_tek]

I wrote this for you:

http://tarekith.com/assets/arranging.html

Yes, you.

Subtractive sequencing... i like that term. And good idea! Good read

I've tried composing in session view, but it's always been fruitless. I suck at jamming. I need the constraints of arrange view. In a way, it helps me focus.