Ableton Forum

I'm wondering what our expectations are. Personally I believe Live8 owners WON'T be able to run M4L creations without purchasing a 'MaxforLive Player License'. For a start, it simply makes sense to me given their business model. They just don't give functionality away for free. But it makes even more sense when I consider the PLUGGO suite of vsts will be included in the M4L package, amongst other creations. If standard Live8 license holders could simply run any M4L creation someone would share with them, it would essentially amount to giving them PLUGGO (etc) for free.

Does that sound like Ableton to you ? Would Cycling74 essentially give PLUGGO away for free to standard Live users like that ?





I think my idea of a 'Maxforlive Player License' would be roughly the same price as pluggo was, and would include the pluggos packaged with MaxforLive to give you an immediate sense of value-for-money.

What are your thoughts on this ? From reading the M4L buzz on the board many people seem enthusiastic about using M4L content created by others - but does everyone think simply running these creations will come free ?
It's an understandable assumption, given the way MAXMSP has always worked before.... the runtime for using maxmsp-created plugins was free, and the package for making those plugins wasn't. Add ableton's business acumen to the mix and what do you get... ?

Discuss, or piss on my parade if my speculation is way off the mark.

max runtime is free

isn't that all you need to use existing patches, including pluggos?

I don't think m4l will include free use of patches

longjohns wrote:max runtime is free

isn't that all you need to use existing patches, including pluggos?

That's all you need to run max patches.
I'm talking about PLUGGO, the VST effect/instrument suite Cycling 74 used to sell. It retailed for something like $199. It's now discontinued and parts of it will be included as content in M4L. Read the following:

http://www.cycling74.com/products/pluggo
http://www.kvraudio.com/news/11565.html
http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&source=h ... &fp=1&cad=

Ableton has made it crystal clear that you need Max for Live to run patches there will be no runtime equivalent.
RTFA (Read the f***in announcement)

djsynchro wrote:Ableton has made it crystal clear that you need Max for Live to run patches there will be no runtime equivalent.
RTFA (Read the f***in announcement)

oh no shit ?
That's a steep investment for folks who just want to use the patches and not make them...

Doppelpunkt-Wurst wrote:

djsynchro wrote:Ableton has made it crystal clear that you need Max for Live to run patches there will be no runtime equivalent.
RTFA (Read the f***in announcement)

oh no shit ?
That's a steep investment for folks who just want to use the patches and not make them...

well. its ableton.
money talks.

maytbee they will do a lite version sometime.

Slightlydelic wrote:maytbee they will do a lite version sometime.

das would be fantastisch.

I reckon they'll do quite a nice price on it, one of the attractions of having it is that you'll be buying in to a never ending library of glitch shuffle sequence grain stutter and whatnot devices, pretty attractive if you ask me. There's going to be a bufffer shuffler and a step sequencer and a whole bunch of Pluggo stuff is being ported. that'll make it cheap for people who want to program, the user base multiplies (good for Cycling) more patches get written everybody wins.

I'd rather not fork out loads just to try a few patches and see what it's all about. Maybe there'll be demo version. I wish they were doing runtime for free or a much smaller fee so the casual user could be part of the experience too. I just want to more devices not to create software. When you look at logic 9, Ableton seems rather stingy on plugs and samples especially as it so much more costly. I still like live more though despite their 'treat em mean keep em keen' approach

I wish cycling 74 would do a rebirth and give us the discontinued stuff for free...maybe for christmas?

no ones complaining about having to buy operator to use presets people make for it

i figure that i will use very few patches created by others, and also most patches that people build are going to be extremely set specific

m4l should be the end to the feature request forum. I think it's worth the investment to use what the community will come up with (and will be no doubt amazing). Have been holding off buying reaktor for a year because of this announcement. Can't wait!

max 4 live will be the solution for every feature request, but only for those who own it, and those who are actually willing to learn max and spend hours making patches.

There might be a couple of people that want to use live, and only live, as a solution for musical performances or musical production or scoring or whatever.

Those people still continue to request stuff for live, as for example:

- recording automation into session view clips
- scoring tools, better midi editing tools
- better and faster use of memory and cpu in big livesets
- better ways to dial through presets

and so on.


I personally doubt that I will have the time to learn max in the nearer future, although I really would like to.

But I would appreciate it if I could use max4live-devices with a kind of runtime. without going into demo-mode.

Same here. It all comes down to cost, and that is probably a universal concern. I am OK with programming stuff in reaktor, but max does indeed scare me. SO, I would buy M4L if it was say, sub $200, as if it were a super instrument add on like Sampler or Operator. I'm not even going to think twice about buying it if it's over $300. I would mainly be buying it to use others creations, and maybe dabble with it, but not hardcore, API messing around stuff. If I need sequencers, granular processors, generative CC data, I can build all of that in Reaktor. So, I hope the Abes don't get too spendy. In contrast to Logic, Ableton are starting to seem a little miserly. This is also what is keeping me from the Suite edition. Can you imagine the price of Live Suite with M4L and Serrato whenever that comes out? 1500+ I bet for a new user...

Well,

how about let them first release M4L, than let them sit back and get some things right (like protection for M4L-patches) and then let them consider a runtime environment.

Reaktor ensembles can also only be used with Reaktor me thinks. This is how things work ... If you want to benefit from something you have to pay for it ... (also by only just using M4L patches you benefit from the efforts that were necessary to implement it ... just because you are not using one feature - the editor so to do - does not mean you are only using a tiny bit of M4L)

I think M4L will become a selling point and so they might be interested in a runtime, like NI has the Kore and Kontakt players etc. (Although Kore player is even more limited than like people here want the M4L runtime).

best