3 notes and runnin.... protesting court ruling on sampling

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
shlomo
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Post by shlomo » Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:59 am

sorry to interrupt, but since this topic started with particular case i would like to ask all of you: did you visited the site and heard the original sample and the prosecuted version?
maybe some opinions would been different after doing that....

pepezabala
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Music: Where does it come from?

Post by pepezabala » Sat Sep 18, 2004 12:18 pm

AcousTronic wrote:Now when it is blatent or the song depends on the sample for audience familiarity like Queen's bassline in Vanilla Ice's 'Ice Ice Baby', that is when royalties should be paid to the rights owner. Screw Funkidelic, they are just looking for a payday.
Did Queen ever pay royalties to Chic for using their bassline? Where did Chic "steal" it from?

Chris J
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Post by Chris J » Sat Sep 18, 2004 2:11 pm

Queen never used Chic bass line ...

Amberience
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Post by Amberience » Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:45 pm

My humble opinion.

Some people don't understand that music doesn't belong to us. Sure, we may create the music, we may even flatter ourselves enough to think that its a unique process and that the music wouldn't come into being without our help.

Personally I think of myself as more of a conduit. The inspiration for the music I create comes from the experiences I have and the events that I suffer.

Each second provides ample amounts of creative energy, which our minds simply convert into action: whether thats mixing tracks, composing a piano piece, or taking audio and slicing and splicing it.

Our lives are the self powered generators that propel our creative explorations, and by this line of logic, the world is directly responsible for the music that we make.

I should be thankful for my bad experiences as well as my good ones. I should be thankful for the people I meet and the things I read. I should be thankful for the films that inspire a mood in me.

Something for you all to think about. Lets not be so self-centred to think that we own our creations.

Remember... Dr. Frankenstein couldn't control his creation, and we can't either.

Fuck stupid sampling laws.

pepezabala
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Post by pepezabala » Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:15 pm

Chris J wrote:Queen never used Chic bass line ...
but they are nearly identical (another one bites the dust/le freak).

hoffman2k
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Post by hoffman2k » Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:25 pm

Is there a law that says you cant do a live performance with samples? totally different then trying to sell a track with a sample you didn't make.

Chris J
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Post by Chris J » Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:31 pm

pepezabala wrote:
Chris J wrote:Queen never used Chic bass line ...
but they are nearly identical (another one bites the dust/le freak).
you probably mean good times rather than le freak...
well the inspiration is obvious but it's certainly not the same apart from the three first repeated notes. (and the following 16th and the 3 8ths )

you could have said Captain sensible's "wot", sugarhill gang...
Last edited by Chris J on Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

Chris J
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Post by Chris J » Sat Sep 18, 2004 5:35 pm

hoffman2k wrote:Is there a law that says you cant do a live performance with samples? totally different then trying to sell a track with a sample you didn't make.
yes of course there is a law : it's written on each and every record you've ever had in your hands.
you know the "public performance... prohibited" bit
it's just that's it's impossible for royalty collectors to verify, but you're supposed to declare it on a special form
nobody does it though

rikhyray
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Post by rikhyray » Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:02 pm

No it is widely practiced , most of promotors are obliged to submit these forms to the agency responsible in a particular country, it is so in all Europe, Americas, many of Asian countries and Australia. The author gets fraction, of what ( in Germany GEMA) charges the promotor. still it is something. As a performer you dont have to pay anything just handle the filled form.

shlomo
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Post by shlomo » Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:38 pm

Amberience wrote:My humble opinion.

Some people don't understand that music doesn't belong to us. Sure, we may create the music, we may even flatter ourselves enough to think that its a unique process and that the music wouldn't come into being without our help.

Personally I think of myself as more of a conduit. The inspiration for the music I create comes from the experiences I have and the events that I suffer.

Each second provides ample amounts of creative energy, which our minds simply convert into action: whether thats mixing tracks, composing a piano piece, or taking audio and slicing and splicing it.

Our lives are the self powered generators that propel our creative explorations, and by this line of logic, the world is directly responsible for the music that we make.

I should be thankful for my bad experiences as well as my good ones. I should be thankful for the people I meet and the things I read. I should be thankful for the films that inspire a mood in me.

Something for you all to think about. Lets not be so self-centred to think that we own our creations.

Remember... Dr. Frankenstein couldn't control his creation, and we can't either.

Fuck stupid sampling laws.
....a humble opinion huh! :D
but true one...

eisnein
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Post by eisnein » Sun Sep 19, 2004 4:28 am

so ........why should anyone else get paid for what they are creating??
computers....
coffee.....

doctors?

that theory doesnt hold up. we spend time creating. nothing may be original but that doesnt mean we didnt create "something".

Chris J
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Post by Chris J » Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:26 am

rikhyray wrote:No it is widely practiced , most of promotors are obliged to submit these forms to the agency responsible in a particular country, it is so in all Europe, Americas, many of Asian countries and Australia. The author gets fraction, of what ( in Germany GEMA) charges the promotor. still it is something. As a performer you dont have to pay anything just handle the filled form.
Well, I've never heard of or seen anyone declaring samples they've used in a live show !
some people declare a few tracks, all of them if they're musicians, so they declare their own tracks, very rarely the whole show in the case of a dj.
most DJs I've met in France don't declare anything at all...

Chris J
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Post by Chris J » Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:34 am

regarding the Beatie Boys case VS james Newton being sampled on pass the mic, I used to think, because of the little info i had, that the beasties had ripped him off, but the truth is that they cleared the sample before hand and paid his record company a fair amount of money. His record company didn't tell Newton, and according to the law they should have asked him too. Something nobody does because the record company is in the best position to do it.
So 8 years later he's sued the beasties, they offered him money but he refused. And he's not the blues or jazz ripped off musician you might imagine, he's doing allright.
So the Beasties won and have hit him back asking him to pay the 500 000 dollars they've had to pay to defend themselves...

Personally i think he should have blamed his record company rather than the BB that in my opinion did the right thing (ie cleared and paid and offered him money )

rikhyray
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Post by rikhyray » Sun Sep 19, 2004 12:13 pm

It applies to compositions, not samples.

shlomo
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Post by shlomo » Sun Sep 19, 2004 1:21 pm

rikhyray wrote:It applies to compositions, not samples.
...damn right!
And it should be only like that:
I do remix of your song i pay tribute (financial) to you. I use a sample from your composition i pay you a tribute too (but not financial).

The border where sample becomes composition can easily be modulated and declared as law. Rules of the game can easily become clear and EQUAL for everyone!

In the particular case wich started this thread there is no way we can talk about financial tribute to G.C.! But the court charged the sample artist and thats dangerous. This court decision could result in total annihilation of samplebased music. But it wont happen.
Creativity can never be supressed, believe me, i used to live in surpressing regime.

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