Constraining Breakpoints In Envelopes

[dokken]

Just wondering if there's a way to constrain breakpoints when you're editing an envelope. My natural inclination is to hold the shift key while dragging them like you would do in a lot of graphics applications but this doesn't seem to have any effect. It would be nice if I could get them to snap to the grid or stay put either horizontally or vertically. Often times I want to increase their value, like volume for instance, without moving them left or right and it's kind of hard to do. Is there a way to just type in a value for a breakpoint instead of dragging it with your mouse? I have parts in my track where I'd like the volume to increase by exact amounts.

Sincerely,
"Frustrated With Breakpoints"

[fireballgames]

The whole breakpoint issue is in fact annoying as hell
for instance "why can't I enter an exact number with my keypad????" and many more complaints
I know this is a shitty solution , but when I need exact breakpointing I just zoom in massively so I get more control

You can always open (yet another) wishlist request and hope that our friends in ableton inc will finally notice our frustration and fix it.

[geo]

The whole breakpoint issue is in fact annoying as hell

True. Use Control(Command for mac) + click and drag vertical to constrain the movement vertically and make it move in more fine increments. What I usually get for snapping to grid is I get into draw mode, draw an anvelope step that will definitely snap to the grid, then I exit draw mode and delete unnecessary points.

[dokken]

The whole breakpoint issue is in fact annoying as hell

True. Use Control(Command for mac) + click and drag vertical to constrain the movement vertically and make it move in more fine increments. What I usually get for snapping to grid is I get into draw mode, draw an anvelope step that will definitely snap to the grid, then I exit draw mode and delete unnecessary points.

Hey, thanks for the tip dude. Using that keyboard modifier is pretty helpful. Not an ideal solution but at least there's some way to constrain them.

[dokken]

The whole breakpoint issue is in fact annoying as hell
for instance "why can't I enter an exact number with my keypad????"

Exactly!! It's weird, Live is such and innovative and powerful program but lately I've been noticing more and more of it's limitations. It seems like a lot of obvious stuff is still missing in the software in spite of it being at version 8 already. I guess since it's intended to be used live that fine details in breakpoint editing are not a high priority though.

[IP]

there are some nice features but the thing needs many many improvements

the shortcuts i mainly use.. (actually i dont know if there are any more except those and the copy/paste classics)

ctrl + env.point drag = fine adjustment up/down (good)
shift + env.point drag = deletes env.points (good)

ctrl + 4 = enable/disable grid (good but the 4 is away from "ctrl")
ctrl + b = enable/disable draw tool (good but the b is away from "ctrl")


what pisses me off ...

1. grid on/off and draw tool should work with one key only. these are very important tools that need a fast and easy access

example

press+hold "d" = enables drawtool when the mouse is (pointing) in the envelope window
release "d" = back to normal

[s]press+hold "g" = enables/disables grid when the mouse is (pointing) in the envelope window
release "g" = back to normal[/s] There is "alt" for that already! My mistake

2. there should be also an easy way to be able to draw envelopes with a single click.
it could be something like the previous example..

press+hold "s" = enables the single click draw.
release "s" = back to normal

3. It is not able to select multiple not in order break points

example

you cant move lets say "a" & "c" the same time


maybe ..

press+hold "a" = enables you to choose different points (or ranges) with the mouse (like in midi editor)
release "a" = you can move anything you previously selected

4. If we select 1 point and move it up/down we can see its value
If we select more points and try to move them we dont have any feedback

it could show the minimum and maximum values of the selected points and to be changing them when moving.

ex. (35/500)

or at least to show the value of the point i clicked, for move all the selected

5. need more draw tools (triangle, square, sine, fades in/out/up/down)

6. typing values to a point and min/max values for selected points

happy 2040!!! lol

ill post this to feature requests as well

[dokken]

there are some nice features but the thing needs many many improvements



ill post this to feature requests as well

IP, thanks for your very thorough post on breakpoints. I can tell you've spent a lot of time working with them. I'm always thankful to get a detailed response from someone who knows what they're talking about on here. I share some of your frustrations and haven't even thought of others. For instance the fact that you don't get values for multiple selected breakpoints hadn't even occurred to me. However, I have to say that the worst thing is not being able to enter values from your keyboard for a given breakpoint. That seems to not be in line with the rest of Live's interface. The ability to select a value, edit it with the arrow key or type in a value, or hit the delete key to bring it back to it's default value seems to be universal throughout most of Live's interface but is not present when editing breakpoints. I think a lot of the problems I have with this sort of editing would go away if I were only able to do this one simple thing. I actually prefer to not use the pencil tool for most breakpoint editing. My preference is to double-click on the envelope line to create my breakpoints. I just kind of prefer to do things in an exact way and the pencil tool along with the current editing paradigm in Live doesn't allow me to do that very well. I thought that I was missing something but I guess that's just the way it works for now.

[IP]

. grid on/off and draw tool should work with one key only. these are very important tools that need a fast and easy access

Ignore the grid on/off...i forget the alt option!
when drawing + holding alt = grid off

so ignore this one