Ableton Forum

In Feb this year I bought a Rode NT2000 condenser mic.
It is meant to be a vocal and guitar mic but
It has just never really worked (IMO)
It needs HEAPS of gain,, and hardly pics up general room noise past 6" from the mic unless
its noises like hand claps or drum hits.
Vocals can sound full and solid if you work the mic within 4"-6" 100mm-150mm with heavy gain
but trying to record a guitar is just useless, if the mic is placed further away than 100mm
then the recorded sound is thin, distant and weak.
I need to max the volume on that particular recorded track in playback.
Now, it could be lots of things like my Alesis iO/14 interface, my expectation (in other words its all in my head)
but I sent it in for check up because I thought it was faulty
I got it back yesterday with this report

Rode nt2000 disassembled...
Full bench test with nff...
Full soak test with nff...
Full internal check with nff...
Reassembled and tested all OK.

The store I took it to could not explain this to me.
There were three test done. What do they mean?

Anyway, I was allowed to take another NT2000 home and test it in my set up. Same basic result,
except it seems that the 2nd mic is a little 'hotter' on the vocal side, but is just as useless for recording guitar.

Apart from feeling quite defeated,
Right now I am thinking that the Alesis' preamps suck,
but another forum member, leedsquietman uses an iO/14 with no serious complaints.

I am left thinking that either the NT2000 line of mics is a lemon, or I need a better mic pre amp.
I have the ability with the Alesis iO/14 to by pass the on board pre's using an 'insert' function.
I don't have the $$$ for a high end pre amp.
I am left having to choose from 'entry level' gear like,
Presonus BlueTube DP or their Studio Channel.

I have come to a bit of a dead end with this
Any thoughts, comments, and condolences would be appreciated.

sorry, but there is a key detail missing-- is this electric guitar or acoustic>

I'm not sure if you already know that nff is shorthand for 'No Fault Found' - possibly the most irritating three letter abbreviation (tla) that you'll come across when you're logging faults.

A very quick question - do you have phantom power enabled on the Alesis for the mic channel you're using?

Also:

Are you definitely selected to mic level input type on the Alesis (it sounds like you're having to put in an awful lot of gain - the difference between line level and mic level is around 60dB)?

Have you tried a different XLR lead?

Have you tried all the mic inputs on your Alesis with the same result?

Is the pad fully deactivated on the mic (I don't think this is the problem)?

Are you on the correct side of the mic if you're on a polar pattern other than omni? (I don't think this is the problem either)

mikemc wrote:sorry, but there is a key detail missing-- is this electric guitar or acoustic>

Ah, sorry.

Acoustic guitars, both nylon and steel.
Both of the guitars I use have bridge pickups which record fine on the iO/14
One has an active fishman which is nice and hot
the other a passive which needs the obvious gain adjustment.

Turn on the phantom power.

robinschroder wrote:I'm not sure if you already know that nff is shorthand for 'No Fault Found' - possibly the most irritating three letter abbreviation (tla) that you'll come across when you're logging faults.

A very quick question - do you have phantom power enabled on your pre-amp?

nff ok so obvious now

Yes, mic/line input selected (not guitar option) phantom is enabled and I have adjusted the 'PAD' input level of the mics in built pre amp for maximum signal.

I have also tried it with just the macbooks bus power (connected to mains) and also the iO/14's wall wart in case the io/14 was not getting enough juice. Same result though.

I have also tried both Live 8.0.4 and GarageBand. I get slightly better results in Live with the recorded signal graphic and, the direct monitoring feature is much better than monitoring through the DAW's. The signals on the mixers in the DAW's are half that of the signal in the Direct monitoring feature. What I mean by this is not only is the audio quieter, but the 'LED' measuring the signals are very different. When I am nudging -6 db in the Direct Monitoring software I am still in the -24 db range in Live and -36 in GarageBand.

robinschroder wrote:I'm not sure if you already know that nff is shorthand for 'No Fault Found' - possibly the most irritating three letter abbreviation (tla) that you'll come across when you're logging faults.

A very quick question - do you have phantom power enabled on the Alesis for the mic channel you're using?

Yes

robinschroder wrote:Also:
Are you definitely selected to mic level input type on the Alesis (it sounds like you're having to put in an awful lot of gain - the difference between line level and mic level is around 60dB)?

Yes.

robinschroder wrote:Have you tried a different XLR lead?

No. Will do and report back shortly.

robinschroder wrote:Have you tried all the mic inputs on your Alesis with the same result?

No. Will do and report back shortly.

robinschroder wrote:Is the pad fully deactivated on the mic (I don't think this is the problem)?

Yes.

robinschroder wrote: Are you on the correct side of the mic if you're on a polar pattern other than omni? (I don't think this is the problem either)

Yes, I even moved from side to side and definitley fell out of the patterns pick up range.

Oh well, just tested again...
All 4 mic inputs give me the same result.
I have 2 cables and they give the same result.

The Rode manual says that setting the mic up between 20-30cm away from a guitar is the 'zone' to use it in,
At that distance, I had to have the gain @ 9/10th of the dial to get decent recorded signal volume wise.
But then it picked up every slightest breath, and even noise outside of my double walled and insulated studio.

At 8/10th gain on the dial I have to hold the guitar at about 10cm away
That is quite close.

I dunno

there's definitely something wrong in your setup...

can you get decent gain if you are direct monitoring using your Alesis (i.e. taking the computer out of the equation?)...

fishmonkey wrote:there's definitely something wrong in your setup...

can you get decent gain if you are direct monitoring using your Alesis (i.e. taking the computer out of the equation?)...

Hi. It appears that I can. If I turn the computer off and power up the Alesis with the wall wart, the direct monitoring seems to work fine. By getting decent gain do you mean that I don't have to turn it up to the same levels as when recording? If so, then I don't. If I set the gain to float around the -14 to -10db range on the Direct Monitoring software that comes with the Alesis and have my guitar around the 20cm-25cm distance from the mic and moderate my playing for as steady a signal as possible, then there is a distinct difference in the overall vol of the recorded sound coming out of Live. In other words I have to turn up the vol on the monitors to get the same approx out put that I heard in the Direct monitoring situation. Does that make sense?

I know its just an assumption, but I expected that I did not have to wind the gain out so much on the interface. When I do so, the actual recording of the guitar sounds very nice, way better than using the pick up. But then soooo much else is being picked up in and out of the room. Its like you can hear the sparrows farting outside the studio. I can hear myself breathing. Its like the mic, with so much gain is super sensitive in certain 'ranges' but not in others.

Part of me thinks that it might be that the NT2000 is super finiky, and the useful 'zones' of set up are so damn slim. ( have in mind that this is my first and only condenser mic). If I reduce gain and move the guitar as close as I can to the mic without touching it then I can eliminate much of the unwanted other noises, but its nowhere near the recommended 20cm-30cm distance I would expect to comfortably use the mic with. Same with vocals. I got wifey to sing a little lullaby while I recorded. She is soft spoken, even when singing, and she had to be within 10cm with high gain to get a decent recording.

ok, then it sounds like there is something funky going on with the way things are setup between your Alesis and your Mac, the gain structure is messed up somewhere so your DAWs are getting a lower signal...

btw, condenser mics (especially large diaphragm ones) are so sensitive that unless you have a really quiet room it's very hard to avoid picking up ambient noise without relatively close miking... and when you move the mic further from the source, part of what you are doing is deliberately including some of the room ambience... also, you probably already realise this, but the omni or figure-8 patterns will give you the least ambient noise rejection...

Hi gjm,

This is weird... I own a NT2000 and really love it for vocals and acoustic guitar.
Been using it for 3 years now.

Could you post an audio file?


Martin

bicarbone wrote:Hi gjm,

This is weird... I own a NT2000 and really love it for vocals and acoustic guitar.
Been using it for 3 years now.

Could you post an audio file?


Martin

Hi Martin. Will do, but it will most probably be very late tonight.

Cheers. Greg.

there is a distinct difference in the overall vol of the recorded sound coming out of Live. In other words I have to turn up the vol on the monitors to get the same approx out put that I heard in the Direct monitoring situation.

so it seems you don't get all of the signal recorded in Live. Maybe some of your routing is faulty, e.g. in the monitoring software, the volume for the recording channel is turned down or something along these lines

the actual recording of the guitar sounds very nice, way better than using the pick up. But then soooo much else is being picked up in and out of the room. Its like you can hear the sparrows farting outside the studio. I can hear myself breathing.

mic placement is crucial here - and of course you can hear yourself breathing. LDCs are very sensitive

maybe get some tips here: http://www.recording-microphones.co.uk/ ... tars.shtml

fishmonkey wrote:ok, then it sounds like there is something funky going on with the way things are setup between your Alesis and your Mac, the gain structure is messed up somewhere so your DAWs are getting a lower signal....

Finally getting some results. I borrowed an M-Audio Fast Track Pro today and got a much different result. I did not have to be so close to the Mic and could pick up more of the guitar and vocal from further away. The signal meters in the DAWs were much more responsive and the graphic of the recorded signal in the tracks were much improved. The Alesis io/14 looks to be the culprit.

So now I am left with either trying to have it fixed which I am sure won't be cheap, or get a stand alone mic pre and use the 'insert' feature on the io/14 to bypass the onboard preamps or get into another Audio interface

Thanks for everyones input.