Ableton Forum

I'd like to share my DJ experience of moving from traditional Vinyl / CDs to a Laptop / Controller set up. Maybe it will help someone or maybe someone will help me to improve it...

My set up = Macbook (running Live 8.04), APC 40 and Novation Nio.

Been Dj'ing with this in my local club for 4 weeks (Fridays and Saturdays), the first 2 weeks just on warm up to get used to playing out this way and the latter in my main sets.

I have my Live set up like this:

2 Audio Channels
Deck 1 and 2, sending audio out 1/2 and 3/4 on the Soundcard to the DJ mixer so im mixing with the faders on the mixer to give me some familiarity like as if im still using CDs to mix with.

Each deck has another 2 audio channels which contain my own made loops and some percussion loops for me to trigger when i want to.
I set up simply one return channel and duplicated it for output 1/2 and 3/4 and on it i have added simple a device rack with my fx mapped inside it.

Example, If im on Deck 1, i have the send knob on the APC that will trigger my return rack. Ive mapped one of the buttons on the APC so it will take me straight to that chosen device rack which i have all the main knobs all mapped to the APC for easy manipulation (idiot proof as well because with my chosen effects hidden inside a device rack i cant accidently fuck anything up)

So far so good, all the tracks in my set are pre loaded, mixed in key and colour coded within my template just ready to go. My CPU never goes over 10% and the whole thing has been absolutely solid for me. Any mistakes that ive made have been through human error (not warping track properly or stopping wrong clip)

Ive always felt it important to keep things really really simple when playing out with something new like this, make sure everything is idiot proof and you cant fuck up or get confused. At the start i had some fx set up on each channel and used the arrow keys on the apc to navigate to what effect i wanted to use, not a great idea to be messing about flicking through stuff while performing i felt, far to easy to alter the wrong effect. I found it easier to map a button to automatically take you to a device rack with the fx hidden inside and the functions you want all ready on the APC for you to play with..

One gripe i do have:

When i map something to a button on my apc, example the device rack i had hard mapped to one button (one of the record arm ones) well the lights dont come on when pressed. It does what its meant to and takes me to the device rack, but it wont light up....ive noticed this with a few things.

Anyway, im looking for some nice ideas to improve my set up or workflow. Does anyone have anything that really works for them they are willing to share and explain? Anything perhaps im missing i could be benefiting from? Maybe im doing it all wrong, help me make it better?

Note - the only fx im using is what i have set up in my device rack (on my return channel)...Ping Pong Delay, Some light Reverb, Funky Wah Wah Guitar fx preset, and some light Redux....ive mapped just the main features i want to my main panel..also i have sidechained the effect so it pumps slightly to what Audio is playing at the time)

Thanks.

Wouldn't life be fricken sweet if those damn lights still worked after hard mapping them?

Cheers to that!

The lights work with Bomes but Im not gonna be getting Bomes any time soon. You'll probally get them to work with M4L but I'm still rocking 7 so that ain't happening for me either. So it goes.

Oh heres a tip I like, I put stickers on the Clip stop buttons so I dont confuse them for Track Select button. Works awesome!

Your set up is rocking. Congrats bro.

Great setup Scott,

I've also got Live 8, an APC40, Macbook Pro and Novation Nio 2|4, but am relatively new to digital djing so your post was very enlightening indeed!

I like the idea of keeping it simple and just having a 'one-stop' effect rack.

One question though, how do you use EQ3 on multiple tracks at the same time? Or don't you bother with this?

I've found this to be the only major fault with the default template on the APC - particularly coming from a vinyl background also.

Alextronica I do like the tip about the stickers on the 'stop clip' buttons - they get me all the time, especially when drunk in a dark room!

QTEK

As a gigging DJ, nativeKONTROL's apC-VC1 modification may be of interest. I have the apC CL1+TC1 bundle for use in the studio, and feel that it was well worth the $30. There's a video link on the site page, and the apC-VC1 is demonstrated toward the end.

Thanks so much Akshara, those presets are soooo helpful! I didn't even know you could purchase something like that!

if you want to be able to scratch samples over the tops of your tracks, or mix songs in an ableton set on short notice without warping/converting them, look into decadance from imageline, it will work as a vst and give you a traditional 2 turntable style setup and mixing method right in abes - NOTE - it will not allow you to scratch the master output or ableton clips, only tracks loaded into decadance, but having 2 turntables in live is a sweet add on and there are dozens of midi controllers with native support in decadance.

Akshara wrote:As a gigging DJ, nativeKONTROL's apC-VC1 modification may be of interest. I have the apC CL1+TC1 bundle for use in the studio, and feel that it was well worth the $30. There's a video link on the site page, and the apC-VC1 is demonstrated toward the end.

I love these presets. I've been using the same bundle as you for a little while and Stray really did a nice job of coming up with coherent and functional additions to the apc.

Nice setup!

I was beginning to think that there weren't any other DJs that only use 2 main channels other than myself!

My audio is routed similar to yours through a hardware mixer (Numark DXM06), which has a few FX on it but nothing amazing. I'm still debating whether its really worth having sends and returns when I could just have the effects on my 2 channels anyway - is it really worth it with only 2 tracks, whats the benefit?

Tarekith did some great bits and pieces for DJing with live (http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=126056)

At the moment I'm using a Remote SL MKII to play with effects with each octave (2 octaves) mapped the right and left channels and various dummy clips and FX (namely loops in Artillery 2 by SugarBytes) on each of the keys. I'd like to be able to use the xy pad to change things like cue volume or crossfade or something (but i guess there's no point as I'm using a hardware mixer).

I'm also thinking of going the APC40 route but can't quite make the decision what with launchpad out next month...

i have clip stop buttons hard mapped, also record arm buttons, and the lights still work, the only lights that dont work are clip launch when i have them hard mapped to controlling a looper.

mike_o wrote:imageline

**gasp**

but they make... fruity loops

on the APC I have successfully used one or more dummy clips to get the lights to do what I want them to, if they are not lighting correctly, without using Bomes or any other MIDI translating/editing software. I use this trick to create efx "selectors" for both Live FX and 3rd Party VST's and also on/off efx controls for the third pary VST's that wont assign via Live's configure mode. Those 3rd party VST's must respond to note's or cc's for the effects on/off to work though.

let me preface this by saying that I'm at work right now and I can't check exactly what my dummy clip settings are, but I figured I'd give you the general idea to star you on your way:

to create a selector light on the APC40:

1)insert a midi track (you could also insert a blank audio clip, but that will just use up resources for no reason)
2)in the midi track, create blank clips for as many devices as you want to select, but make sure the blank clips are all in one track.
3)select the device you want, click MIDI map mode and click the purplish area on the device header, then press whatever button on the APC40 that you want to use as that device's selector.
4)while still in MIDI map mode then choose one of the blank MIDI clips, and assign the SAME BUTTON to the clip.
5)Exit MIDI map mode
6)Set the clip to 'trigger' (Launch settings), 'none' (for quantize settings) and make it a one bar loop (don't forget to turn loop on). You can use a shorter or longer loop too, it really doesn't matter as long as your blank MIDI clip is looping, the light will stay on.
7)Repeat this process with as many buttons as you want to assign to devices.

The point of all this is that you will always know where you are just by looking at the APC40. So for example, lets say you assigned Track 1's clip stop button to select the EQ for track 1,and Track 2's clip stop button to select the EQ for track 2. By using the selector light dummy clips you will always know what your APC's focus is, because track 1's stop clip lights up when you select Track 1's EQ, and Track 2's stop clip lights up when you select track 2's EQ. Put more simply, you have hard-wired track 1's stop clip to both select and light up upon pressing it. The same for track 2. This trick should work for all light-up buttons on the APC (with the exception of the stop all clips button, which for some reason doesn't want to cooperate for me).

One BIG item to note is that if you use the scene launch buttons to launch scenes, you will most certainly want to create a slew of rows and put the dummy clip/selector light control on like scene 500 or something, to avoid inadvertantly selecting the wrong dummy clip. I don't use the scene launch pads at all, so this isn't an issue for me.

Creating a "toggle light" is a bit trickier and takes a bit more work. First let me set up the scenario:

Lets say you have a third party audio effect VST that DOES NOT assign to Live's "configure" option, but DOES respond to MIDI notes or CC's. Using the same concept as above, you can create an "on/off" using whatever MIDI control your plugin likes.

For example if you have a VST that has an ON button for an effect that responds to CC 56, you then click in the dummy clip, draw a steep envelope for MIDI CC 56 that rises from 0 to 127, and then assign your APC40's button to trigger that dummy clip. Now, whenever you press that button on the APC40, it launches the dummy clip that then triggers CC 56 to rise from 0 to 127, which then turns on the effect in your VST. For the track that your dummy clip resides on, you will need to have your 'MIDI Out' settings correctly targeting the track that contains your VST. MIDI out is located by showing the I/O track option in Live's mixer area.

Now the part that I forget is what the clip settings are to get the light to turn on and off in conjunction with with the VST's effect turning on and off. I can hopefully get some time to look tonight to see exactly what my dummy clips are set to, to get this effect. I believe you needed TWO tracks set up, firing two simultaneous clips, both set to toggle, and use some craft looping to get the desired results. This is for notes however. I haven't tried it out using CC's but I don't see why it wouldn't work.

Overall I hope you can get the general concept of how to control your APC's lights though by reading this........but be warned! Dummy clips and the APC40 are a slippery slope! Once you get this concept, you will undoubtedly come up with about 80 bazillian more ideas of how you could set up your APC40. The entire month of September and half of October is now a blur to me, all due to my own personally crafted dummy clip hell!

how is the nio i was thinking about getting one

H20nly wrote:

mike_o wrote:imageline

**gasp**

but they make... fruity loops

bwahahaha, yes they do but they also make the only vst hostable turntable program, so they get a certain forgiveness.

@RCUS - I have been banging my head agaisnt the wall all week. Thankyou for the explaination. Will have a crack after work.

JDOFF wrote:@RCUS - I have been banging my head agaisnt the wall all week. Thankyou for the explaination. Will have a crack after work.

glad I could help! Let me know how it works for you.

To clarify on how to do a toggle light switch, basically do everything I said above for the selector light button, only make two MIDI dummy tracks with ONE clip in each track. The clip in the first MIDI track should be the one that houses the CC change or note value to trigger the setting in the plugin you are controlling, and the clip in the second MIDI track should be a blank clip. Set the clip in the first track to toggle, none (for quantize), and loop off, and set the clip in the second track to toggle, none (for quantize), and loop on. What you are doing is creating a toggle button that sends out a signal to the plugin to turn something on and off. The feedback is faked, so the downside is that if it gets inverted it will react in the opposite manner. Again, use a little problem solving skills and tweek the clips to your liking (even assign multiple clips to one button) and the possibilities are endless. And again, no Bomes needed!