Ableton Forum

I know a lot of you will also frequent the Gearslutz forum, but for those that don't ( or if you've missed it ) here's an incredibly informative thread concerning how to get the best results out of your DAW mixes.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much- ... mixes.html

It's a huge read - and not all of it makes much sense if you're not a total audio geek/expert - but when it stays OT it's rammed with invaluable advice.

I've been guilty of letting my mixes creep up to unmanageable levels lately, but I've tested the salient points of the 'turn it down' argument for myself with astounding results.

You should too.

evernaut wrote:I know a lot of you will also frequent the Gearslutz forum, but for those that don't ( or if you've missed it ) here's an incredibly informative thread concerning how to get the best results out of your DAW mixes.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much- ... mixes.html

It's a huge read - and not all of it makes much sense if you're not a total audio geek/expert - but when it stays OT it's rammed with invaluable advice.

I've been guilty of letting my mixes creep up to unmanageable levels lately, but I've tested the salient points of the 'turn it down' argument for myself with astounding results.

You should too.

+1000!

Suscribed to the GS thread as of right now. Looks like it is full of info.

For sure. It's a good explanation and a worthy read (yes, I am on GS plenty and gave my +1 to that thread there).

Still, Tarekith and others information on this site also refers to much of the meat of that GS post. A K.I.S.S. moment - 1) record in 24 bits to allow you to record at lower levels with no noise penalty; 2) leave HEADROOM (peaks several dB under 0 dBFS), and if you intend to have the product mastered elsewhere, leave several dBs of headroom on the master channel.

It's always tempting to push volumes up and up and easy to forget about things such as the impact that boosting with EQs and makeup gain with compressors does to your levels. One great feature in Live 8 is the ability to group a whole bunch of tracks and bringing down the volume on one track then brings the other tracks grouped down by the same amount. Just like FX - when it sounds good, back off from it a bit. Distortion recorded at 10 usually sounds great at the time you're playing it, but gets mushy and out of control when you record it. Back it off to 7 or 7.5 and iit might not sound quite as impressive live, but sounds a whole lot more impressive and controllable in your DAW.

Always take some breaks while mixing before committing - stuff like distortion, chorus and reverb - your ears get used to it after a while so you push it more and more and it sounds great - take a 15 minute break, make a cup of tea, take a dump or whatever and come back it to it and it's ... WHOAAAHHH THERE MR. JONES - and then you back it off to more moderate levels.

this is mostly for working with not-just-live-internal-situations, right?

because live has a lot of headroom and it's summing is actually designed to handle all the situations very well. it's only when putting the stuff to other apps, or vst plugins, or actual analogue hw, right? (this includes master to audio-out, of course).

because i see not much sense in it as long as i'm 100% working in live itself, the difference is just not there.

evernaut wrote:I know a lot of you will also frequent the Gearslutz forum, but for those that don't ( or if you've missed it ) here's an incredibly informative thread concerning how to get the best results out of your DAW mixes.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much- ... mixes.html

It's a huge read - and not all of it makes much sense if you're not a total audio geek/expert - but when it stays OT it's rammed with invaluable advice.

I've been guilty of letting my mixes creep up to unmanageable levels lately, but I've tested the salient points of the 'turn it down' argument for myself with astounding results.

You should too.

Interesting read so basically we are saying we should stick a utility plugin at the beginning of our effects chains? Or something like the FreeG plugin from sonalksis (which is free?) This means we should be turning the individul faders down and turning the volume up with a gain plugin.


Pleas correct me if I am wrong.

mlee_aus wrote:
Interesting read so basically we are saying we should stick a utility plugin at the beginning of our effects chains? Or something like the FreeG plugin from sonalksis (which is free?) This means we should be turning the individul faders down and turning the volume up with a gain plugin.


Pleas correct me if I am wrong.

The basic gist is that if you've tracked too hot and have a mix that's zooming out of control level-wise, yeah - stick the Free G as your first plug in the chain & knock the trim level down to something like -20dB. What I then do is set the Live fader to 0 and use the FreeG fader to position the track in the mix. Also, set your master buss to -6dB (and pretend that's your ceiling)

You'll also need to get used to turning your amp up to compensate for the low levels I find.

That said, if you've tracked judiciously at lower levels you may not need to be so drastic.

The end result is a whole lot more room in your mixes, with everything sitting much nicer together... and your compressors/EQ will also work more to your advantage. It seems counter-intuitive (especially if you come from a tape or 16 bit digital background where the prevailing wisdom was to hit it hot), but it works.

There's a whole lot of argy regarding the truth of this in the thread, and how it's not neccessary with floating point systems, but I've tried it and it works. Also, the guys who are making these points are highly-respected audio engineers (Paul Frindle is one, who designed SSL consoles and has since worked on the Sonnox range of plugins), so you shouldn't dismiss their contributions lightly.

I know this stuff has been raised before thanks to Tarekith, etc. but sometimes someone spells it out for you in a way that suddenly hits home. Never a bad thing.

All I can say is try it out.

mlee_aus wrote:

evernaut wrote:I know a lot of you will also frequent the Gearslutz forum, but for those that don't ( or if you've missed it ) here's an incredibly informative thread concerning how to get the best results out of your DAW mixes.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much- ... mixes.html

It's a huge read - and not all of it makes much sense if you're not a total audio geek/expert - but when it stays OT it's rammed with invaluable advice.

I've been guilty of letting my mixes creep up to unmanageable levels lately, but I've tested the salient points of the 'turn it down' argument for myself with astounding results.

You should too.

Interesting read so basically we are saying we should stick a utility plugin at the beginning of our effects chains? Or something like the FreeG plugin from sonalksis (which is free?) This means we should be turning the individul faders down and turning the volume up with a gain plugin.


Pleas correct me if I am wrong.

or turn the volume down on the actual sample / instrument? should do the trick?

davepermen wrote: or turn the volume down on the actual sample / instrument? should do the trick?

Well, another main point of the argument is that DAW meters (including Live's) are pretty unreliable...

every time I read anything related to mastering my brain goes to mush

okay.. else, it would work but if you want other measurements, you need a plugin of course. you could plug in a simple meter-tool and adjust the sample / instrument volume while checking that meter, though.. (but most likely that plug in would have some form of gain in it integrated..)

tl;dr

iZotope Ozone ftw.

definitely going to check that place out more later on tonight

Skip Burrows-

The answer is simple. DAW meters suck Butt. There should be a meter mode in all DAW's that makes the meter at 3/4 scale equal -20 at 1.23 volts. Just like the old VU. This way, novices will quit corn-holeing their levels.

Nicely worded Skip.

Android Bishop wrote:every time I read anything related to mastering my brain goes to mush

Me too.