Ableton Forum

I am new to producing, but have been DJ'ing for almost a decade. Just recently purchased Live 8, and the goal is to create quality progressive house and even tech house tracks. I have read books like "DANCE MUSIC MANUAL (2nd edition)" by Rick Snoman which was extremely helpful and gave me a good foundation to work on. I also have the "260 DRUM MACHINE PATTERNS" by Rene-Pierre Bardet which gave me some basic insight on patterns. I need help putting together drum/percussion sounds together, and also some drum patterns that are progressive house oriented. I am looking for 4-to-the-floor rhythm, but I can't seem to get a thick enough kick, a snare that works good with my kick, and want to find a decent clap without sounding too cheesy. Lastly, any suggestions for bass sounds? I do not have any 3rd party VST/Plug-ins yet, and could use some suggestions on that too.

Any help would be fabulous -- thanks for the help in advance!!!

telso wrote:I am new to producing, but have been DJ'ing for almost a decade. Just recently purchased Live 8, and the goal is to create quality progressive house and even tech house tracks. I have read books like "DANCE MUSIC MANUAL (2nd edition)" by Rick Snoman which was extremely helpful and gave me a good foundation to work on. I also have the "260 DRUM MACHINE PATTERNS" by Rene-Pierre Bardet which gave me some basic insight on patterns. I need help putting together drum/percussion sounds together, and also some drum patterns that are progressive house oriented. I am looking for 4-to-the-floor rhythm, but I can't seem to get a thick enough kick, a snare that works good with my kick, and want to find a decent clap without sounding too cheesy. Lastly, any suggestions for bass sounds? I do not have any 3rd party VST/Plug-ins yet, and could use some suggestions on that too.

Any help would be fabulous -- thanks for the help in advance!!!

It's like asking how to be millionnaire ? I would take weeks to answer ... There is plenty of good tutorials start with them. After, you'll be able to ask better questions. I liked the Tom Cosm ones.

Cheers !

I don't know if you know this or not but Rick Snoman is also creating DVD tutorials on how to produce certain genres of music. The next DVD is rumored to be Progressive House (DVD 5).

Check out http://www.dancemusicproduction.com for more info.

M. F. Ruckus wrote:I don't know if you know this or not but Rick Snoman is also creating DVD tutorials on how to produce certain genres of music. The next DVD is rumored to be Progressive House (DVD 5).

Check out http://www.dancemusicproduction.com for more info.

thnx -- wasn't aware he was cranking out DVD's like that -- I hope they are much different than the robotic-monotone voice DVD he provided with the book, which sucked. But the book was priceless.

I have friends who are signed to labels currently, and most of them say to just sample sample sample, but my 2 biggest concerns is copyright laws & if using a kick-snare-clap sample off a cd bank -- usually royalty free -- i am afraid of the having a cookie cutter beat(s). Snoman's advice on synthesizing kicks, snares, hats, etc. was another option. I don't expect to figure it out overnight (heck, even a year to figure out 1/2 of what LIVE offers -- which is a compliment).

Are there any books (other than the one i have/mentioned) on drum patterns geared towards prog house, tech, and even trance? Any info appreciated.

transology wrote:

telso wrote:I am new to producing, but have been DJ'ing for almost a decade. Just recently purchased Live 8, and the goal is to create quality progressive house and even tech house tracks. I have read books like "DANCE MUSIC MANUAL (2nd edition)" by Rick Snoman which was extremely helpful and gave me a good foundation to work on. I also have the "260 DRUM MACHINE PATTERNS" by Rene-Pierre Bardet which gave me some basic insight on patterns. I need help putting together drum/percussion sounds together, and also some drum patterns that are progressive house oriented. I am looking for 4-to-the-floor rhythm, but I can't seem to get a thick enough kick, a snare that works good with my kick, and want to find a decent clap without sounding too cheesy. Lastly, any suggestions for bass sounds? I do not have any 3rd party VST/Plug-ins yet, and could use some suggestions on that too.

Any help would be fabulous -- thanks for the help in advance!!!

It's like asking how to be millionnaire ? I would take weeks to answer ... I don't think you're in the good place. There is plenty of good tutorials. I'll liked the Tom Cosm ones.

Cheers !

thx for the advice -- watchin a vid as we speak -- good stuff, cheers!!

Not sure how his voice sounded in the 2nd edition CD (1st edition had a synthesized voice) but on his DVD's his voice is soft and you may have to take a break every once in a while. Voice aside, his DVD's are very informative and helpful.

You could also take a look at this tutorial here:

http://www.groove3.com/str/producing-ho ... -live.html

Just picked it up the other day and what I have seen so far has been very helpful.

Guess the new DVD is the 1st in a new series called fundamental. The first one will be on Groove. This one might be a good one to purchase if looking into how to create good sounding drum rhythms.

Layer your BD's!!!

Start with thumpy kick, short decay, and filter out anything under 80~100hz. Then layer on an 808 kick. Set the decay as long as you want it(3.5ms + should be perfect for prog). You should slow the attack of the 808 if you're using a sampler or with the impulse, launch the 808 kick with "soft" turned on.

As for bringing out your snares, take them off time!!!! Whats likely happening is that phasing between the kick and sd are canceling out some of the punch of the drum and snap of the snare. Draw your notes w/ 1/16 snap to grid turned on, then turn it off. Highlight your sd's and zoom in closely to one of them. Ever so slightly, take them off time until they sound right. I like moving the sd sliiiiightly before the kick and the clap sliiiiiightly after the kick. You'll know that you went too far when things start sounding like a train wreck.

This goes for all percussions in 4/4 beats...move a few things slightly off time and suddenly everything comes to life. Like one or two ghosts hats and or something like that.

tonymac wrote:Layer your BD's!!!

Start with thumpy kick, short decay, and filter out anything under 80~100hz. Then layer on an 808 kick. Set the decay as long as you want it(3.5ms + should be perfect for prog). You should slow the attack of the 808 if you're using a sampler or with the impulse, launch the 808 kick with "soft" turned on.

As for bringing out your snares, take them off time!!!! Whats likely happening is that phasing between the kick and sd are canceling out some of the punch of the drum and snap of the snare. Draw your notes w/ 1/16 snap to grid turned on, then turn it off. Highlight your sd's and zoom in closely to one of them. Ever so slightly, take them off time until they sound right. I like moving the sd sliiiiightly before the kick and the clap sliiiiiightly after the kick. You'll know that you went too far when things start sounding like a train wreck.

This goes for all percussions in 4/4 beats...move a few things slightly off time and suddenly everything comes to life. Like one or two ghosts hats and or something like that.

Not bad advice at all

I normally use about 4-5 different layers on a kick though, with various different filters, it's really a question of what sound you want.

Here's a tip, if you use a sufficiently trebley kick (preferably one that sounds quite like your hi hat) then you can drop the hi hat on any bass kicks and your ears will just fill in the missing beat (if you're doing 8ths or 16ths). makes a bit of space in the mix.

Thanks Ed J. Yeah I layer more than that too, depending on the song and how lazy/adventurous I'm felling anyway haha.

I also forgot to mention, huge newb mistake i see time and time again - length of the notes. Extend the notes you want to have a long decay (BD and maybe certain snares or claps). You could be cutting them off at the knees!

tonymac wrote:Thanks Ed J. Yeah I layer more than that too, depending on the song and how lazy/adventurous I'm felling anyway haha.

I also forgot to mention, huge newb mistake i see time and time again - length of the notes. Extend the notes you want to have a long decay (BD and maybe certain snares or claps). You could be cutting them off at the knees!

Or (if you're lazy like me) just give them a longer release time As long as the sustain isn't messed with it'll just play to the end of the release cycle pretty much as normal

there are some pretty decent prog-oriented sample libraries out there.
I've got the Thomas Penton ones which are pretty good value. I use it mainly for the one shot drum samples but I might use a loop and cut it up in some way. You can get all 3 of his cd's for $60,- if you use the 50% first order discount code on that site, which makes it a no-brainer if you ask me.

I don't think you should be afraid of sampling single drumhits (mainly kick drums) out of commercial tracks. Everybody does it in dance music I think and quite possible the kick you're sampling was sampled already from something else.
Of course if you like to get busy layering 5 kicks go right ahead, i know that sort of thing is not for me, I just want to get on with the music.

snakedogman wrote:there are some pretty decent prog-oriented sample libraries out there.
I've got the Thomas Penton ones which are pretty good value. I use it mainly for the one shot drum samples but I might use a loop and cut it up in some way. You can get all 3 of his cd's for $60,- if you use the 50% first order discount code on that site, which makes it a no-brainer if you ask me.

I don't think you should be afraid of sampling single drumhits (mainly kick drums) out of commercial tracks. Everybody does it in dance music I think and quite possible the kick you're sampling was sampled already from something else.
Of course if you like to get busy layering 5 kicks go right ahead, i know that sort of thing is not for me, I just want to get on with the music.

Haha, I like to get an interesting sound

Most people will at this but the XFER CD that deadmau5 did has some awesome samples on. The loops are good too, he's actually used some of them on his new album

Ed J wrote:

snakedogman wrote:there are some pretty decent prog-oriented sample libraries out there.
I've got the Thomas Penton ones which are pretty good value. I use it mainly for the one shot drum samples but I might use a loop and cut it up in some way. You can get all 3 of his cd's for $60,- if you use the 50% first order discount code on that site, which makes it a no-brainer if you ask me.

I don't think you should be afraid of sampling single drumhits (mainly kick drums) out of commercial tracks. Everybody does it in dance music I think and quite possible the kick you're sampling was sampled already from something else.
Of course if you like to get busy layering 5 kicks go right ahead, i know that sort of thing is not for me, I just want to get on with the music.

Haha, I like to get an interesting sound

Most people will at this but the XFER CD that deadmau5 did has some awesome samples on. The loops are good too, he's actually used some of them on his new album

deadmau5's xfer kit has some awesome sounds, its just a matter of getting creative with them and figuring out what you want them to really sound like. The processed and huge kicks are great if your soften them up and expand their frequency range. EQ Eight it an amazing effect as well as auto filter. Put your kicks into impulse and you soft and lower the frequency to a desired level...

snares and claps are the toughest thing for me to do, I liked the idea of taking away the 1/16 away and slightly readjusting the timing on those snares/claps/hi-hats...

Dynamics play a huge role! You will be suprissed what a Gate and Compressor can do, especially when you use your sidechains.

-TB