Ableton Forum

So I have this quadrophonic panner that I built a while back in Max/MSP and I am trying to condense it into an M4L patch that I can drop onto any audio channel in live. My goal is to achieve the same functionality as the quad panners in Digital performer or Cubase. Does the dac~ object still work the same way inside of live (i.e. if you give it arguments you can access the different output channels of your interface)? I looked at the help files for plugin~ and plugout~ and it seems that both of them are necessary to get any audio out of live's mixer. But I assume that any audio sent to the dac~ object will work the same as it did in Max/MSP. However, if I route the plugin~ object to the dac~ I get no sound. Has anyone played with multi channel output in Max for Live?

Here's what I have so far:

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
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-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>

Sorry, but no. That's not how it works.

All the audio input to a M4L device sitting on an audio channel comes in in stereo via the plugin~ object. Similarly, all the audio output FROM a M4L device on an audio channel (or the output of a MIDI instrument, for that matter) goes out in stereo via the plugout~ object (see Help > Max for Live > Max vs. Max for Live (see the right-hand listing for "Reference").

If you want to use more than two channels for your audio output, you'll need to resort to other means... um... external audio outputs? I've forgotten what folks are precisely doing in this situation, but I'm sure someone will remind me (mzed? vanceg? you there?)

First thought that comes to mind is the officially unsupported plugsend~ and plugreceive~ objects, though I tried implementing them in your patch and I was bewildered by the results. I created the following patch:

<pre><code>
----------begin_max5_patcher----------
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C4p2qnjLTRnWCMY5W99c+OfQ.t2E
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
</code></pre>

and then I created four other patches on four other tracks, each with their own send. No matter where I positioned myself I could not seem to get sound concentrated in one single corner.

Oh, and for the record: Until someone decides to offer an alternative to surround sound in live/m4l, could we please not do away with these objects?

It would seriously make my life a lot harder.

Gregory Taylor wrote:If you want to use more than two channels for your audio output, you'll need to resort to other means... um... external audio outputs? I've forgotten what folks are precisely doing in this situation, but I'm sure someone will remind me (mzed? vanceg? you there?)

My ears are piqued. I am very interested in knowing what I can feed my output of vbap towards reliably.

One thought would be direct the audio to however many channels of audio needed in a surround mix and then only use the necessary out of that vbap construction and send it to a specified summing track, dedicated for all audio going to that channel.

You're probably going to get bewildering results because - as the help files and the refpages point out - "The use of the plugsend~ and plugreceive~ objects to pass audio between Max for Live devices is not supported."

Gregory Taylor wrote:You're probably going to get bewildering results because - as the help files and the refpages point out - "The use of the plugsend~ and plugreceive~ objects to pass audio between Max for Live devices is not supported."

I would seriously like to hear some alternatives. The greatest software marriage ever still can't seem to conceive an almost requisite DAW feature (ss). Just. Boggles. My. Mind.

I have a quadraphonic als. set in the works. It needs another few hours once I get the time. I'll post a link when I get around to it.

i think stefan-tiedje already did this with a rack workaround. and someone else did a quad thing too. not tested them for a while though...

http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... d&start=15

Yes, the rack workaround was what I was thinking of.

While the request for multichannel audio out is certainly right up there on the list, two things are helpful to remember: one of them's that M4L is hosted - what is supported in some cases has quite a lot to do with what the host app does and how it does it. The other thing that might be worth remembering is that if one is not staring at the code base itself, the definition of how "obvious" or "simple" a thing is to do may not be as simple as one imagines.

Gregory Taylor wrote:Yes, the rack workaround was what I was thinking of.

While the request for multichannel audio out is certainly right up there on the list, two things are helpful to remember: one of them's that M4L is hosted - what is supported in some cases has quite a lot to do with what the host app does and how it does it. The other thing that might be worth remembering is that if one is not staring at the code base itself, the definition of how "obvious" or "simple" a thing is to do may not be as simple as one imagines.

Makes total sense. It seems ironic to a degree (the lack of ss) but it makes a lot of sense how these limitations occur in practice.

You can also pull off quad by controlling send busses. Not as elegant as Stephan's solution, but possible.

mz

Here's a very basic set for quadraphonic sound-set that allows you to keep the audio inside live on four tracks: quad 1

By updating the paths you can create groups of these, allowing multiple instances to be summed in another track and then sent to either audio channels or external audio devices.

I added a 6th track for the purpose of creating X/Y envelope changes. This is a much leaner than the rack version I previously made from ideas in this thread: http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... 9#p1073369

It also borrows ideas from the OP's of this thread's interface and the interface sits in a rack similarly to stefan-tiedje's st.pace.

An improvement to this would be the ability to use the other id mode. Then, with some fiddling multiple instances would be much easier to drop in. When there's time I'll get on it.

I built a very simple device using Live's Sends
The "trick" is to get equal power from the exponential knobs.
This is not perfect but it does the job
BTW, don't forget to use audio rate to control Sends level unless you want some clicks.

----------begin_max5_patcher----------
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-----------end_max5_patcher-----------

Olivier