OT: Where non-Americans get to vote - Please have your say!!

[hitherto]

NEWS FLASH......

Americans (for the most part) don't care what foreigners think. To think that some silly poll would have an effect on the election is ludicrous.

ummm...i don't think anyone thought they could change an election. seems to me they just wanted the opportunity to talk about the issue. calm down.

But djshiva....you must not have read the original post, why don't you go back a read it. I am very happy when people want to talk about the issues, freedom is great isn't it (something they didn't have in Iraq) .

oh yeh...There is no need for me to calm down. I, in fact, am very calm. I was just stating an opinion that I think is very common, you don't have to agree.

There is a common conception here that if Americans cared what you Europeans thought, you would all be Nazis.

common? really? cuz i had never heard that particular bit of backwoods nonsense until it came spouting out of your keyboard.

I think that it is a very common belief in the US that if we had not interveened in WWII then Europe would be a Nazi state. I don't necessarily believe it, and you can have your own opinion on the issue...but if you don't think that a large chunk of Americans belive it you must live in a cave.

Ummmm.....what does this mean? Is this supposed to mean that Americans are uninformed about the world. No...what is shows is how uninformed you are. Most Americans don't have a passport because the US is huge...you don't need a passport to go from state to state, you don't even need a passport to pass over the Mexican and Canaidian borders.

ummm...what it meant was that since most of us don't have passports, we don't get the opportunity to travel the rest of the world and see that our particular brand of myopic cultural viewpoints are not acceptable anywhere else in the world except in our own misled uneducated heads.

Well, before I ever had a passport I went to both Canada and Mexico, and had seen many great and different places within the US. The truth is most Americans don't have passports because they don't need them to travel, you can go to so many great places w/o a passport. More people in Europe have passports becasue they need them to travel. I have been to Europe, lived there for a year (can't wait to go back, I love so much about it), and it is very easy to go to different countries, just hop on an inexpensive train, and you are in a new country in a few hours (how could you not love that!!).

I have tried not to make any personal attacks against you, or to pass any judgement upon you, but I have to point out how myopic the view point is to think that the American cultural point of view is any more "myopic" then any other cultural point of view. And to claim that only Americans are misled and uneducated is just, well....misled and uneducated.

[djshiva]

americans are obviously not the only misled and uneducated ones on the planet, we just happen to be the only ones with enough weapons, money and power to force our way of thinking down everyone else's throats.

[hitherto]

americans are obviously not the only misled and uneducated ones on the planet, we just happen to be the only ones with enough weapons, money and power to force our way of thinking down everyone else's throats.

Well, the Terrorists and Saddam (not necessarily the same), seem to have enough money and power to do that too.

And the difference is that "our way of thinking" is that of millions (the people, this is a democracy (kind of)), not that of a few (Radical Muslim dictators and terrorists).

[FaX-01]

americans are obviously not the only misled and uneducated ones on the planet, we just happen to be the only ones with enough weapons, money and power to force our way of thinking down everyone else's throats.

Well, the Terrorists and Saddam (not necessarily the same), seem to have enough money and power to do that too.

And the difference is that "our way of thinking" is that of millions (the people, this is a democracy (kind of)), not that of a few (Radical Muslim dictators and terrorists).

And just how many Musilims - do you think there are in the world ?
A HELL of a ALOT let me tell you.
Which just adds more mindless dross to these stupid threads .

[hitherto]

americans are obviously not the only misled and uneducated ones on the planet, we just happen to be the only ones with enough weapons, money and power to force our way of thinking down everyone else's throats.

Well, the Terrorists and Saddam (not necessarily the same), seem to have enough money and power to do that too.

And the difference is that "our way of thinking" is that of millions (the people, this is a democracy (kind of)), not that of a few (Radical Muslim dictators and terrorists).

And just how many Musilims - do you think there are in the world ?
A HELL of a ALOT let me tell you.
Which just adds more mindless dross to these stupid threads .

your point?

[forge]

And just continued building their empire America. with the third reich
as an example on how not to do it.

funny. i was feeling as if maybe they actually took pointers from the third reich on HOW to do it.

I dont know if kerry would be able to clean up this mess the land is in.
While it is obvious that the current president doesn't give a damn about anybody inside of america.

ummm...believe me, he doesn't give a damn about anybody INSIDE of america either. unless you have lots of cash to feed into his little megalomaniacal empire, that is...

BTW who's gonna inspect the WMD's america has?

no shit! our massive stockpiles are the main reason we have nations like iran and north korea working so hard to build nukes. why wouldn't they, when the big dog on the block keeps holding them over everyone else's heads? do a web search for dr. helen caldicott for some great info on the nuclear arms race and the military industrial complex. she's amazing, and if anyone wants a cd of her speaking on the subject, pm me and i will post the mp3...

Hi DJ shiva - I'm interested in that MP3 if you have the time or inclination to upload it somewhere

[forge]

If Kerry is the same as Bush, I'm sure the well-educated European snobs on this list won't mind if my friends and I vote for Bush.

[ignore] well-educated European snobs on this [/ignore]

No voting for Kerry JUST to get rid of Bush is a perfectly good enough reason because he does seem to be less of a bigotted fuck

[forge]

Well, the Terrorists and Saddam (not necessarily the same), seem to have enough money and power to do that too.

And the difference is that "our way of thinking" is that of millions (the people, this is a democracy (kind of)), not that of a few (Radical Muslim dictators and terrorists).

And just how many Musilims - do you think there are in the world ?
A HELL of a ALOT let me tell you.
Which just adds more mindless dross to these stupid threads .

your point?

the point being if the crux of your argument is based on that then it's pretty flawed - now that there's no commies, the whole muslim world is the bad guy - I think you'd be disappointed to find that most muslims I've met are more peace loving and better educated than alot of the christians (especially the dubbya evangelical type) I've met who seem to have insular biggoted view.

Unfortunately, as convenient a bogey man as 'islamic fundamentalists' might have proven to be to the republicans, the reality is nothing like they've painted it.

Okay so 9/11 gave you a shock - it gave us all a shock, but alot of people in the rest of the world have had to live with terrorism for a long time - Britain didn't blow up Ireland to get rid of the IRA and invading Iraq was about as relevant as it would have been if the Brits invaded sweden to get the IRA. All the stuff about 'Saddam was bad' is just a way people are dealing with the terrible atrocity of all those innocents who've died on their conscience for what Dubbya is now calling a incorrect intelligence that most of the world said right at the start was wrong - including the weapons inspector the UN had actually assigned to finding it all out Hans Blix.

The Allies originally set up the UN to stop stuff like this happening and by the USA going 'above' it they've opened a can of worms. From now on 'rougue' countries don't need to really care what the UN says.

So if you're happy to just buy the 'spin' and opt for the easy answers - fine for you, but the world really needs your people to take a stand on this and vote against bush because no matter how you look at it the war was wrong and the world can't afford any more like it unless we want world war 3.

[SinisterDexter]

One day to go...

[hitherto]

And just how many Musilims - do you think there are in the world ?
A HELL of a ALOT let me tell you.
Which just adds more mindless dross to these stupid threads .

your point?

the point being if the crux of your argument is based on that then it's pretty flawed - now that there's no commies, the whole muslim world is the bad guy - I think you'd be disappointed to find that most muslims I've met are more peace loving and better educated than alot of the christians (especially the dubbya evangelical type) I've met who seem to have insular biggoted view.

Unfortunately, as convenient a bogey man as 'islamic fundamentalists' might have proven to be to the republicans, the reality is nothing like they've painted it.

Okay so 9/11 gave you a shock - it gave us all a shock, but alot of people in the rest of the world have had to live with terrorism for a long time - Britain didn't blow up Ireland to get rid of the IRA and invading Iraq was about as relevant as it would have been if the Brits invaded sweden to get the IRA. All the stuff about 'Saddam was bad' is just a way people are dealing with the terrible atrocity of all those innocents who've died on their conscience for what Dubbya is now calling a incorrect intelligence that most of the world said right at the start was wrong - including the weapons inspector the UN had actually assigned to finding it all out Hans Blix.

The Allies originally set up the UN to stop stuff like this happening and by the USA going 'above' it they've opened a can of worms. From now on 'rougue' countries don't need to really care what the UN says.

So if you're happy to just buy the 'spin' and opt for the easy answers - fine for you, but the world really needs your people to take a stand on this and vote against bush because no matter how you look at it the war was wrong and the world can't afford any more like it unless we want world war 3.

FaX-101 obviously thinks that all Muslims are radical terrorists, I don't. I think that there are just a small percentage (I hope).

If you guys want to have an intelligent discussion you need to pay attention to what is said!!

[forge]

the results are in and here's how the non american world voted - hope it sways any doubters over there and enough get out there to make it happen

Lets all meditate the voters some white light and hope America votes with it!

.......

You asked to receive the results of the global 2004 presidential election. Your vote was one of 113,552 votes from 191 countries (confirmed votes from countries other than the US only). The winner is John Kerry (Democrat) with 77.1% of votes.

The votes are as follows:

Candidate Votes Percentage
Bush 10221 9.0 %
Kerry 87446 77.1 %
Cobb 4347 3.8 %
Nader 7622 6.7 %
Brown 2292 2.0 %
Peroutka 345 0.3 %
Badnarik 1279 1.1 %

The ! results have now been released to the media. Thank you for supporting our project, and may whichever candidate you voted for win on Tuesday!

For a more detailed technical breakdown of figures, click here

"Do you really think Americans care what you linguini-spined Europeans think about our election?" For encouraging feedback from US citizens, click here

Benrik Limited & Poke London

[Moonburnt]

Some amusing (in a Cletus kind of way) responses to that poll here:

http://www.benrik.co.uk/content/vote_reactions.asp

[Fingers]

And there's no such thing as a British accent. I assume you mean English accent. I won't get upset, you wouldn't understand my accent anyway.

Sorry, but you're wrong. There is such a thing. You can break it down to Welsh, Scottish whatever but it is still a Brit accent. I think I would understand you, but as to whether I would want to...

Oh dear. Why are you all so nationalistic? Every argument made against the current administration is taken as an attack on Americans.

I'll give you the accent one, I've met several Americans who genuinely cannot distinguish between English, Scottish and even Irish and Northern Irish accents. I also met more than one who thought I was Scandinavian. It's a matter of environment, I suppose, another byproduct of insulation. I don't think that would have happened if I'd been English. A long list of Hollywood villains have finally sorted that one out.

[forge]

And there's no such thing as a British accent. I assume you mean English accent. I won't get upset, you wouldn't understand my accent anyway.

Sorry, but you're wrong. There is such a thing. You can break it down to Welsh, Scottish whatever but it is still a Brit accent. I think I would understand you, but as to whether I would want to...

Oh dear. Why are you all so nationalistic? Every argument made against the current administration is taken as an attack on Americans.

I'll give you the accent one, I've met several Americans who genuinely cannot distinguish between English, Scottish and even Irish and Northern Irish accents. I also met more than one who thought I was Scandinavian. It's a matter of environment, I suppose, another byproduct of insulation. I don't think that would have happened if I'd been English. A long list of Hollywood villains have finally sorted that one out.

that's right - the bad guy is always english - but that's because for a few hundred years the bad guy always was.

Anyway Fingers I think you're being a bit hard on them - I'm sure if you asked most Americans the name of a famous Scotsman they'd all know of Mel Gibson, so your Caledonian National Identity is safe.

I accidentally watched a bit of that most recent James bond on telly the other night and I nearly cried when I saw that Ian Fleming has been so viciously mutilated and brutalised and watered down to Sausage and Egg McFleming.

Somebody should get a court injunction to stop them making any more of those terrible films before there's nothing good left about the only true British Cult Hero there ever was.

No matter how hard they try, no charachter in any film will ever or could ever be as cool as Sean Connery's James Bond. Every man wants to be him, every woman wants to fuck him - still. If you show anyone Dr No or you only live twice and gave them a magic life swapping machine and you had to choose between your life and the Sean Connery James bond, every man on Earth would choose Bond. Lasers between the legs an all.

So stick that in your John Wayne pipe and smoke it America. You can have your proud nationalism, and thinking we're attacking you personally if we try and suggest that maybe you should think about getting a Human to be your president and not just settle for a Chimp, we'll just get on with living in the rest-of-the-world hoping our leaders don't volunteer us for any more of his "liberating" conquests when you vote him in again.

But perhaps the sensitivity is down to a little guilt at collectively letting him in in the first place. That's certainly what it feels like here - shame at having ever thought anything good about tony blair.

[Fingers]

Anyway Fingers I think you're being a bit hard on them - I'm sure if you asked most Americans the name of a famous Scotsman they'd all know of Mel Gibson, so your Caledonian National Identity is safe.

I accidentally watched a bit of that most recent James bond on telly the other night and I nearly cried when I saw that Ian Fleming has been so viciously mutilated and brutalised and watered down to Sausage and Egg McFleming.

Somebody should get a court injunction to stop them making any more of those terrible films before there's nothing good left about the only true British Cult Hero there ever was.

You got that right. Shir Shean was the daddy. Sadly now all he does is preach Scottish nationalism at us from his Caribbean hideaway.

As for Tony, yes, I remember the euphoria of 1997, when we really all believed things could only get better. Maybe they could have, but the system corrupts everyone. Maybe we were just being naive.