Ableton Forum

...and one man's struggle to reject it for a love marriage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TojTlYNNm9w

(nice find, Mrs. Neb)

have a friend who goes to Texas for what he calls "meat markets".. he got alot of pressure from his family cuz he was 25 and not married so his family always encouraged him to go.. He told me that he was close to being perceived as damaged goods in his culture (from India) if he was that age and still single. good news is that he did find someone albeit, still kind of arranged between the families.. what matters most is he actually lucked out and seems very happy.. First time I went to a Indian wedding and he did it big and I never saw so many guests at a wedding (he said around 2k).. i asked how he paid for all of it, but he said tradition was the brides family pay for it.. i guess her family had a bunch of hotel/motel property..

^ a lot of truth in your observations...
1. If you think guys are damaged goods, check and see what happens to girls who hit 30 and aren't married...you'd think they were lepers.
2. Bride's family does pay. But often, to save face, a family will go into financial debt or ruin, all for the show of a wedding.
3. The wedding celebration lasts a whole month with activities and decorations and eating. After that, the pressure is so high to stay together that you don't bail even though you want to kill each other.

The list goes on and on. It's quite fascinating to me, especially since I rejected the whole notion and married a white chick. And paid a hefty price in that my parents didn't speak to me for over a year. Can't please 'em all...

Anyways, back to the fun fun - this video is awesome!

But at least if you're going to be miserable it's better to blame it on something like an arranged marriage than your own blind dumbass decision making skills.

^ choice of evils...I'd prefer annulling my drunken marriage to a Vegas stripper over the social pressures that come with the mail-order bride.

nebulae wrote:^ choice of evils...I'd prefer annulling my drunken marriage to a Vegas stripper over the social pressures that come with the mail-order bride.

Maybe mail-order bride is the wrong term? They're pretty notorious for jetting as soon as it's feasible and about the only social pressure you have to make it work exists in the fantasy world in your head.

beats me wrote:

nebulae wrote:^ choice of evils...I'd prefer annulling my drunken marriage to a Vegas stripper over the social pressures that come with the mail-order bride.

Maybe mail-order bride is the wrong term? They're pretty notorious for jetting as soon as it's feasible and about the only social pressure you have to make it work exists in the fantasy world in your head.

Clearly, my sober friend, you have not outsourced your mail orders to Mumbai.

nebulae wrote:

beats me wrote:

nebulae wrote:^ choice of evils...I'd prefer annulling my drunken marriage to a Vegas stripper over the social pressures that come with the mail-order bride.

Maybe mail-order bride is the wrong term? They're pretty notorious for jetting as soon as it's feasible and about the only social pressure you have to make it work exists in the fantasy world in your head.

Clearly, my sober friend, you have not outsourced your mail orders to Mumbai.

I don't know any white guys that are attracted to Indian women except for the rare case when she looks like a latin porn star.

I know several. And they're all miserable.

Somewhat tangential, but not completely OT, is the nature of marriage in general in the modern world at this juncture.

A wise acquaintance remarked to me: "We live in a society where, after the couple has children, the man's territory is relegated to a basement or garage workshop/hobby area." Moreover, he made observations to the effect that he is not only pushed there, but he retreats to there.

I found this stunning in its truth and simplicity. If you find yourself in a marriage, any marriage-- whether to Nebulae's drunken stripper or to some more generally acceptable manipulationist who applies animal attraction along with the leverage of tradition and moral obligations, you of course make the best of it. But the upside in terms of opportunities to improve the quality of your existence is not clear, and in fact more downsides are apparent. Then, when you have offspring, the various instincts and emotions involved towards these seal your doom: your welcome basement is your grateful retreat between running errands and waiting to die.

Incidentally, you may believe that you are somehow entitled to the nookie, but this is not at all the case.

None of it is entirely unpleasant, but at the end of the day, situationally speaking, your *best* case outcome is that you have a nice basement/garage-like area in which to pursue things that actually interest you personally for a few hours each week.

mikemc wrote:Somewhat tangential, but not completely OT, is the nature of marriage in general in the modern world at this juncture.

A wise acquaintance remarked to me: "We live in a society where, after the couple has children, the man's territory is relegated to a basement or garage workshop/hobby area." Moreover, he made observations to the effect that he is not only pushed there, but he retreats to there.

I found this stunning in its truth and simplicity. If you find yourself in a marriage, any marriage-- whether to Nebulae's drunken stripper or to some more generally acceptable manipulationist who applies animal attraction along with the leverage of tradition and moral obligations, you of course make the best of it. But the upside in terms of opportunities to improve the quality of your existence is not clear, and in fact more downsides are apparent. Then, when you have offspring, the various instincts and emotions involved towards these seal your doom: your welcome basement is your grateful retreat between running errands and waiting to die.

Incidentally, you may believe that you are somehow entitled to the nookie, but this is not at all the case.

None of it is entirely unpleasant, but at the end of the day, situationally speaking, your *best* case outcome is that you have a nice basement/garage-like area in which to pursue things that actually interest you personally for a few hours each week.

Despite my many statements against marriage I agree it looks good on paper and I admire the marriages I know that work, like nebulae's and Tone Deft's. The problem is men have a short list of desires in a marriage but almost of those have been downgraded to insensitive sexist demands that don't get met and for the most part men have accepted that and deal with it through joking about it or throwing a fit that gets the same response as a parent scolding their kid. Meanwhile women's long list of desires in a marriage hasn't changed in the slightest and if the man doesn't meet these demands he is looked on as a big loser.

Men and marriage = lose/lose

I gotto get out of this thread. It's depressing me.

beats me wrote:The problem is men have a short list of desires in a marriage but almost of those have been downgraded to insensitive sexist demands that don't get met and for the most part men have accepted that and deal with it through joking about it or throwing a fit that gets the same response as a parent scolding their kid. Meanwhile women's long list of desires in a marriage hasn't changed in the slightest and if the man doesn't meet these demands he is looked on as a big loser.

This is very well said.

nebulae wrote:I gotto get out of this thread. It's depressing me.

I'm sure there's a fairly pleasant place in the basement somewhere

And, of course, in the final analysis, the women will prevail, we will be phased out, having been allowed to be around long enough to invent the turkey baster, freezer, and cellphone.

nebulae wrote:I gotto get out of this thread. It's depressing me.

Nah, from all I can tell your marriage works.

But let's say a man stops working or paying the bills for same amount of time his wife doesn't have sex with him on a consistent basis. Odds are it will end up in divorce because he's not holding up his end of the deal. Meanwhile it takes a lot more time, effort, and skill to land and maintain a good job than it takes for somebody to spread their legs. Either way, you’re the asshole. Fair much?

mikemc wrote:Somewhat tangential, but not completely OT, is the nature of marriage in general in the modern world at this juncture.

A wise acquaintance remarked to me: "We live in a society where, after the couple has children, the man's territory is relegated to a basement or garage workshop/hobby area." Moreover, he made observations to the effect that he is not only pushed there, but he retreats to there.

I found this stunning in its truth and simplicity. If you find yourself in a marriage, any marriage-- whether to Nebulae's drunken stripper or to some more generally acceptable manipulationist who applies animal attraction along with the leverage of tradition and moral obligations, you of course make the best of it. But the upside in terms of opportunities to improve the quality of your existence is not clear, and in fact more downsides are apparent. Then, when you have offspring, the various instincts and emotions involved towards these seal your doom: your welcome basement is your grateful retreat between running errands and waiting to die.

Incidentally, you may believe that you are somehow entitled to the nookie, but this is not at all the case.

None of it is entirely unpleasant, but at the end of the day, situationally speaking, your *best* case outcome is that you have a nice basement/garage-like area in which to pursue things that actually interest you personally for a few hours each week.

Lol's

When my wife and I bought the house we are currently in 6 years ago, the day we moved in she parked our car in the 20x20 detached garage. After a quick conversation about the fact that this detached building was going to become my new manshed, she never parked the car there again. That is however as close to the above noted situation that my own experience comes to. There are some sad views expressed here.

Cool video BTW.