Ableton Forum

A follow up from about a week ago.

I went forward and sold the APC 40. As I described in my initial post I am house/techno DJ from the 90's. The days when two technics and pioneer DJM500/600 was the set up to have. I require a great deal of real time hands on control.

I bought the NI Maschine. Let me just tell you. This piece of gear is absolutely wicked. 10 times as fierce of when I had my first MPC 2000xl years ago. I feel kind of stupid that I am just hoping on to the Maschine wagon now. Hands down the funnest, most intelligent piece of equipment I've used in years. Also, if I really want too, it works with Ableton perfectly, but I am not there yet.

In my initial post I was a bit distraught over "what was I really doing and accomplishing with the APC 40" as a stand alone piece. The APC 40 does absolutely nothing in my opinion. Perhaps as compliment to something else it could work nice, but on it's own, I was just a zombie "triggering" stuff. People suggested I remap the APC to handle my type of work flow. Again, I saw no sense in that. The pads were not pressure sensitive or real time, there were not enough knobs ultimately to act as a 'mixer' and most importantly the layout of the APC itself, while perfectly aligned to Live 8, just is not the proper format for a real DJ. I don't want to knock Akai. The APC 40 in build quality is actually very strong and well made. I don't want to insinuate that I feel cheated in any way. The point I am trying to make is that do you "make" music with the APC 40? Absolutely not. I thought initially that is what I was getting. I perfectly integrated item for Ableton 8 that could encompass every aspect of music making. I was completely wrong and it take multiple items and multiple scenarios to set-up.

I could go on for hours about this, but it's obvious I am not abandoning Ableton 8 altogether. I just changed up the hardware aspect of my set up. For anyone that has these same thoughts, the Maschine is absolutely ridiculous. Next up is saving for a A&H Xone 4D, but likely going to pick up a Kontrol x1 for $200 in the meantime. Traktor to follow. I just don't understand what the APC 40 and the launchpad and items like that are really meant for. Especially the launchpad huh? If there has ever been an item that I looked at and said "what the hell am I going to use that for" the launchpad is at the top of that list. Perhaps if you are from the present generation of music makers items like this make sense, but for the few of us on here that have been around music a long time the Maschine is everything you need and something I immediately can related with. As a DJ I was really loyal to Ableton, even when I purchase Live 2 about 7 years ago. I stuck with it and did not try other softwares. I look back and now wish that I had been using Traktor all along.

I found this on youtube. This is an example of what I am talking about with Maschine. It's not me, but this is exactly how I envision using Maschine. There are others on youtube that are mindblowing. Then go look at APC 40 videos. They basically all suck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taUkJfVosVk

Is this really from a DJing perspective or do you still find it more intuitive for production as well?

Just interested really. I love my APC40 as a studio tool, just press a clip and record and use the footpedal to loop it, I use a controlpad to get my drums going so it works great in the studio.

What specifically is it about Maschine that floats your boat?

There's alot of love for the maschine, I rarely come across any harsh reviews. In fact I can't recall the last one I saw.

I'll definitely have to try one out some time, just to see what all the fuss is about.

It's that old saying - 'horses for courses'

I love the Launchpad. Using the right clips, it has turned Live into an instrument.

It's all about the audio you are using and the type of music you are trying to make. If you are using, say, 16 bar loops and you maybe only trigger a new loop or a variation every 64 bars then I can understand that the Launchpad wouldn't seem very interactive.

I'm using short loops or one shot samples and triggering new stuff more frequently. Not as quickly as I would like yet, but I'm practicing.

UKRuss wrote:Is this really from a DJing perspective or do you still find it more intuitive for production as well?

Just interested really. I love my APC40 as a studio tool, just press a clip and record and use the footpedal to loop it, I use a controlpad to get my drums going so it works great in the studio.

What specifically is it about Maschine that floats your boat?

It's a great question. I loved the APC 40 as well, at first. Mainly due to it's plug and play aspect. It's a 2 part question and answer. From a djing perspective, APC 40 is insufficient. It lacks in every category of live djing I could imagine. I need both hands using all things when mixing. Problem was the APC 40 is not structured for that. Meaning you do one thing and wait and switch channels to change eq levels and so on. My overall motion was slow. I am still having a hard time figuring out how the APC could have worked in my set up. When I use to dj I could tweak and screw around with pitches on my technics and the DJM 600 had the respective channel eq's as well as (for that time period) on board effects. From start to finish of a set I was constantly doing something. It's really hard to explain, but I was becoming frustrated with the APC 40. I am not a technical guy and that's just it, it was becoming too complicated for me. I also didn't like with Ableton that when I triggered a loop, song, whatever have you, it was not instantaneous. Meaning when cueing (which was a project all in itself) I would want to drop something and it would hit a second later.

Again I am not a technical person, but Maschine just makes sense. I am a very slow learner, but that's just it. In the days of 2 decks and a mixer, you didn't have to know much, but know your music and how to match beats. Something I excelled in. I grew up in the days of the MPC 2000. The maschine is basically that times 10. The step sequencer is awesome. Just like using an old roland 909 or 808. The sounds are awesome. You can sample something in less than 5 seconds and play back on all your pads in 2 seconds. Plus I have a jazzed out new macbook pro and even with that I was noticing cracking and delay (rare, but it did happen) with Ableton and the APC 40 in the mix.

As you can see I clearly have no idea what I am really talking about in technical terms, but the Maschine just feels right for me and as mentioned, I now need to pick up an analogue mixer again.

dum wrote:There's alot of love for the maschine, I rarely come across any harsh reviews. In fact I can't recall the last one I saw.

I'll definitely have to try one out some time, just to see what all the fuss is about.

Man..you have no idea. I'm having the same feeling that I had the morning after I got laid for the first time.

I'm with Leon.. the launchpad is great if you want to use session view like an instrument.. although I totally love this putdown

If there has ever been an item that I looked at and said "what the hell am I going to use that for" the launchpad is at the top of that list.

Leon Tricker wrote:It's that old saying - 'horses for courses'

I love the Launchpad. Using the right clips, it has turned Live into an instrument.

It's all about the audio you are using and the type of music you are trying to make. If you are using, say, 16 bar loops and you maybe only trigger a new loop or a variation every 64 bars then I can understand that the Launchpad wouldn't seem very interactive.

I'm using short loops or one shot samples and triggering new stuff more frequently. Not as quickly as I would like yet, but I'm practicing.

"I'm using short loops or one shot samples and triggering new stuff more frequently. Not as quickly as I would like yet, but I'm practicing."
But that's just it. I don't understand that. Why would someone use launchpad to do that, when say an MPC or Maschine does that by design and you can sequence, make songs and even if you just want to trigger short loops and one shot samples live. Maschine is meant for that with the realtime velocity sensitive pads. Perhaps I am missing an integral part of the Novation and Akai gear. As I mentioned although I have extensive sound knowledge I am about 10 steps behind everyone else in terms of how to use this gear.

oddstep wrote:I'm with Leon.. the launchpad is great if you want to use session view like an instrument.. although I totally love this putdown

If there has ever been an item that I looked at and said "what the hell am I going to use that for" the launchpad is at the top of that list.

lol. yeah sorry about that. a bit harsh huh?

I just wish I could agree- since as a slagoff it's so good.

dum wrote:There's alot of love for the maschine, I rarely come across any harsh reviews. In fact I can't recall the last one I saw.

I'll definitely have to try one out some time, just to see what all the fuss is about.

maschine is awesome, what strikes me as well is the fact that NI really started to make german attitude quality hardware, all there hardware is so utterly well and solid built, compared to others. i totally love that they have put such a strong focus on the design and manufacturing / built.

REMIX!

recon1 wrote:Man... I have no idea what the hell am I going to use that for. I'm having the same feeling that I had the morning after I got laid for the first time.

Hidden Driveways wrote:REMIX!

recon1 wrote:Man... I have no idea what the hell am I going to use that for. I'm having the same feeling that I had the morning after I got laid for the first time.

I see, yes you've got to find the bit of kit that works with your flow and gives you the feedback you're used to.

I had a laucnhp[qad before i bought the APC and i loved it and used it live a few times, but the thing i didnt like was the delay between say tweaking an effect on user 2, then having to kill it before flipping back to session view to trigger somethig else before flipping to mixer to play with the sends...leading me to think you defintely need 3 launchpads at all times, one for user 2, one for your session and one for your mixer. Then actually it would be a great little tool.

However it just so happened I decided to take some real production focused time and step away from the live stuff for a while so the APC seemed the mroe sensible choice.

I totally see the Maschine angle though, but sadly I am a real programmer when it comes to electronic drums, I love clicking the pattern into that piano roll, so i don't miss the old drum machine style production.

It defintely is horses for courses! Good luck with the maschine and post up some vids once you're in the flow!

UKRuss wrote:I see, yes you've got to find the bit of kit that works with your flow and gives you the feedback you're used to.

I had a laucnhp[qad before i bought the APC and i loved it and used it live a few times, but the thing i didnt like was the delay between say tweaking an effect on user 2, then having to kill it before flipping back to session view to trigger somethig else before flipping to mixer to play with the sends...leading me to think you defintely need 3 launchpads at all times, one for user 2, one for your session and one for your mixer. Then actually it would be a great little tool.

However it just so happened I decided to take some real production focused time and step away from the live stuff for a while so the APC seemed the mroe sensible choice.

I totally see the Maschine angle though, but sadly I am a real programmer when it comes to electronic drums, I love clicking the pattern into that piano roll, so i don't miss the old drum machine style production.

It defintely is horses for courses! Good luck with the maschine and post up some vids once you're in the flow!

You got it brother...