Ableton Forum

Hey,
After being a self taught guitarist for many years and making electronic music for many years, I just realised how chords and scales actually work together.

After a year of reading up on the topic online, I found ONE article which showed me that if I play a scale in a particular key, I can use any chord in that key's chord progressions and basically my melody will sound stronger.

Why cant music instructions be clear??

If anyone has any cool tips, advice or links regarding chords and scales and interesting ways to use them (especially changing modes/keys) please list them here in this thread.

How about posting the URL of that ONE article?

the chords of any given scale are represented by roman numerals for the scale degree of the root of that chord. for instance in the key of c major, the scale begins and ends on c and a c chord (ceg) would be represented by the roman numeral I. an f chord (fac) in the key of c would be referred to as the IV in this key, and so on. here's the chart of typical chord progressions as most commonly seen in the major scale of contemporary western music. this is of course only a guildine as to what is commonly heard, and is by no way a rule to be stricktly adheared to.

(chord notes in c)

I (ceg) - may move to any chord
ii (dfa) - may move to V or vii
iii (egb) - may move to ii, IV or vi
IV (fac) - may move to I, ii, V or vii
V (gbd) - may move to I or vi
vi (ace) - may move to ii, IV, V or vii
vii (bdf) - may move to I or V

in the minor mode it is slightly different

(chord notes in a, c's relative minor)
i (ace) - may move to any chord
ii (bdf) - V or vii
III (ceg) - may move to ii, iv, V or vii
iv (dfa) - may move to ii, V, vii
V (egb) - may move to i or Vi
VI (fac) - may move to ii, iv, V or vii
vii (gbd) - may move to i, V or VI

another cool bit of info when in the minor mode is using a melodic or harmonic minor scale instead of the natural minor. for instance the natural a minor scale begins and ends on a and uses only the white keys on the piano, like so:

a b c d e f g a

however the harmonic minor raises the seventh scale degree a half step, meaning that you would play a g sharp (the black key just before the a) rather than a g natural so the scale would be:

a b c d e f g# a

in the melodic minor, we alter it again, but it's a bit different. when a melody is going up the scale we raise the sixth and seventh scale degrees a half step each, but when it's going down, we lower them back to the natural minor, so:

a b c d e f# g# a g(natural) f(natural) e d c b a

try using the harmonic minor when playing chords in a minor key and try using the melodic minor when playing melodies in a minor key.

music theory man...it goes on and on and on and on...

imekon wrote:How about posting the URL of that ONE article?

Yes please post a good informative link. The roman numeral thing was a bit over my head.

my favourite link: http://www.amazon.com.

read a good book on that topic rather than surfing the web for years.
i'd give you some suggestions but all the books i know are in german.

laq

probably a bit overkill for most, but if you want to dig real deep, "theory of harmony" by Arnold Schoenberg is the book for you.
he explains really really well and is a master of composition himself. his book is one of the standards for everyone involved in music theory.
especially because he never had musical education himself and learned everything autodidactically. this way he has a very unique approach towards the topic and is capable of really explaining the hows and whys and not just giving you rules to deal with.
maybe get it from your local library (it's not cheap!) and read the first few chapters. that should clarify a lot already.

There are no short cuts, one page wonders. You have to learn, study if you want to be complete musician. There is no "heart surgery for dummies" neither anything like that for serious music.
I went through 12 year training in Indian classical music but then while confronted working with jazz musicians i only could use my ears. Since I also played guitar I decided to use it to learn read/write western notation.
There are thousand of books , I used many but what made me musically literate was "Modern guitar method" by Leavitt of Berklee. Though it comes from jazz world it can be usefull for any music, you will learn harmony on the way, using variety of scales and it was fun to work with it.
Just to read about something is not enough you have to integrate it in you playing/ thinking so if you serious about it , have to dedicate some time, only then you will get results.
Another wicked book for guitarist is "chord chemistry" by Ted Green, may make you wish to have 6 or 7 fingers. Anytime lacking new ideas just get your guitar and pick up some insane chords of Ted Green.
The Leavitts book will be good for your guitar playing but if harmony is your main interest then "A modern method for keyboard" from same Berklee Press will be better. Once I started with electronic music, realised that I must learn more so got this one, I wish to have more time to study it.

rikhyray wrote: Just to read about something is not enough you have to integrate it in you playing/ thinking so if you serious about it , have to dedicate some time, only then you will get results.

true

solutionsagent wrote:

imekon wrote:How about posting the URL of that ONE article?

Yes please post a good informative link. The roman numeral thing was a bit over my head.

But the "roman numeral thing" is what it's all about Give it another read perhaps - dirtystudios is talkin sense! What I don't think DS mentioned is that when he uses lower case roman numerals, that is shorthand for minor - that may help clarify it for you. Another way of writing it that you may come across is to write a small m after the chord if it's minor, eg I, IIm, IIIm, IV V, VIm, VIIm7b5

I found this guide particluarly useful

http://www.kwookyworld.com/rsg2mt/rsg2mt.pdf

Explains everything succinctly and has some useful diagrams too.

Remembered though, these rules are guidelines and its possible to break them....

cheers
Stal

I made some chords and scale presets based on http://www.looknohands.com/chordhouse/piano/

Still have to get around to doing some more.
It's possible that i could have made some mistakes when programming, but i double checked most of them.
here they are

cheers

if you know your chords then

http://chordmaps.com/

is a good free resource for self taught players. It let's you pick any chord progression you like and gives you tons of choice on how to spice it up in a visual way. Read and learn every word on that site and get a chord chart if you need and you should see a vast improvement in your music.

sorry folks
here's the links:

http://www.united-trackers.org/resource ... /modal.htm
http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~desm ... s/keys.htm

I have been looking for a while on a "Bible" of music theory. I want an end all resource when I am stuck on a question... Anybody seen a book of this sort out there?

I have been looking for a while on a "Bible" of music theory. I want an end all resource when I am stuck on a question... Anybody seen a book of this sort out there?

Well then, I guess it all depends on what your questions are.

Far and beyond the most enlightening and useful tome re: music theory that I've ever found is "Harmonic Experience" by W.A. Mathieu. It's the kind of book where you may never pass beyond chapter 3, but you could spend the rest of your life working with those three chapters and still be overjoyed and most satisfied.

It's also the most beautiful tome I've ever read about music and harmony. It takes it out of the intellectual mind and places it right into the center of your physical, experiential being. It does this while maintaining the famililar roadmap of intervals, combinations of intervals, scales and traditional notation.

Go here for some very brief excerpts.

Best,
Logicat