Ableton Forum

Is contemporary non-pop music also referred to as "classical"?

In my language non-pop of all time is referred to as "serious", while classical is reserved to past, like Bach or Mozart.

Yes, confusingly it is.

Wait . . . I write "contemporary non-pop" music. As in: I'm writing music currently (thus it is "contemporary") and it is definitely NOT pop. So I must be writing "classical" music? Hmmm.

If that's what a UK citizens says...

You know you're getting old when a music station is claiming to be playing an "old-school-retro-time-warp" set and all the tracks came out in 1996-1998. That's just not right.

there's no hard answer for this, unfortunately. it's very much an open issue.

technically, classical music refers to music from the "classical" period (i.e. post-baroque, pre-romantic). in common usage, though, "classical" refers to all eras of "serious" music, from gregorian chant to whatever john adams or philip glass writes next year.

in classical music circles, the term "pop" music is often used to distinguish between classical and non-classical music, so that anything that isn't "serious" music, indigenous music, or (arguably) jazz is referred to as "popular" (i.e. pop). it includes top 40 radio pop, but also death metal, edm, idm, country, etc.

what to call contemporary "classical" music is sort of a problem, and we don't seem to have agreed on a name we all like. my composition teacher called it "contemporary art music." in the classical music world, you'll often hear people refer to it as "contemporary music" or "new music."

nowadays, the lines between contemporary music and pop music are increasingly blurred, especially when you look at non-formulaic popular genres like IDM and jazz...

classical vs. Classical ^^^

Is contemporary non-pop music also referred to as "classical"?

In my language non-pop of all time is referred to as "serious", while classical is reserved to past, like Bach or Mozart.

Yes, confusingly it is.

I answered the OP question correctly. I didn't try to justify or explain it

vicz wrote:

Is contemporary non-pop music also referred to as "classical"?

In my language non-pop of all time is referred to as "serious", while classical is reserved to past, like Bach or Mozart.

Yes, confusingly it is.

I answered the OP question correctly. I didn't try to justify or explain it

it's an important question to be asking now.

professionally, i frequently go back and forth between these two worlds (old classical, new classical, and everything in between).

people who write and perform contemporary music are just as confused over what to call it as us posters are.

baseinstinct wrote:Is contemporary non-pop music also referred to as "classical"?

In my language non-pop of all time is referred to as "serious", while classical is reserved to past, like Bach or Mozart.

I've thought about this-- there is this kind of information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempora ... ical_music

but if your music reflects any of these kind of approaches, is it contemporary classical music?

I think that what gets labelled as 'classical music' is tightly controlled, because ultimately it is an institution that is founded on the rigorous instruction of people in the techniques of classical music, a considerable investment of time and money per each musician, not all of them can perform at the same level, there are limited seats and venues, and fundraising is a constant activity.

[edit] I guess what i'm saying is that the label itself carries some weight, like being recognized as a "legitimate charity that advances culture" vs. some panhandler with an instrument, and so it is not handed out lightly.

[edit edit] I guess what i'm not quite saying is that, I believe music is for everybody, and anyone who feels a need to express themselves musically should, and i'm not quite sure at what point that expression becomes 'classical'. It seems [edit edit edit] that it does when it starts to veer towards 'that which is archetypical expression of eternal bla bla bla in the human whatsis' and it takes a larger heterogenous community to ascertain that.

mikemc wrote:
I've thought about this-- there is this kind of information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempora ... ical_music

Thanks for the wiki link. I've never seen post-war music categorized in that way, it makes a lot of sense. The musicologists who taught me (during the 20th century) referred to it generally as "20th century" "contemporary music" or "contemporary art music." In the pro world, I tend to hear "contemporary music" and "new music" most often.

I think this distinction is useful. It's from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_music
"The notion of art music is a frequent musicological distinction, referred to by musicologist Philip Tagg as an "axiomatic triangle consisting of 'folk', 'art' and 'popular' musics." He explains that each of these three is distinguishable from the others according to certain criteria."

The fiction author Neal Stephenson described this well, in relation to writing. When asked why he wouldn't consider his work "literature," he answered that it has to do with the audience for whom he is writing. If he were writing "literature," his work would have to answer to standards established by centuries of literary history and a contemporary critical establishment. But instead, he writes complex, technically-dense stories for geeks who want to read a good yarn, that's all. So he's off the hook - he can write whatever and however he wants, without concerning himself with whether or not the ivory tower types will approve.

I'd say the same applies to music. "Art" music is written in a way that self-consciously bears a relationship to the "art" music before it.

Then there are things like The Knife's new opera that really blur the lines between "pop" music and "art" music:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_Hr-mtAFbo

I've been showing this clip to many of my colleagues in the opera world, and some (including myself) are like "Holy Shit! This is the future of opera - everyone needs to be doing this" while others are like "Sorry, that's not real opera. It's pop music coupled with an artsy staging."

Time for a new word.