Ableton Forum

Here's my application: I am using Ableton Live to play backing tracks for my band. We play and Ableton plays along with us so I don't have to hire twelve musicians to play all the parts. I'm sure I'm not the first person to use it this way. Each scene or row represents a song. I have nine groups of clips, so each "scene" (or song in this case) has nine possible clips that could contain backing track material. Each clip contains different program material (percussion, bass, piano, orchestral, effects, ect.) Not every scene/song needs nine clips so some clip locations are blank.

Here's what I want: Each song needs to follow the previous song without human interaction so we can start a set and have it go from scene to scene (song to song) without stopping.

Here's what I know: I've entered bpm and time signature information for each scene so they all play flawlessly when started individually. Since Ableton doesn't have a scene follow action, I need to create dummy clips to fill empty locations and have them all follow each other at the same time. Since all my clips in a scene are the same length, I just copy one into the empty slots and take the volume envelope to zero because I don't know how to create an empty dummy clip exactly the right length. Sounds good so far.

Here's the catch: First, if warp is on, the clips follow each other at the tempo of the first clip. I need each scene to play at the individual launch tempo I defined in the master column. Second, follow action is based on measures and you don't get measure information about a clip when warp is off. Third, envelopes don't work when warp is off so I can't copy a clip and run the volume to zero to use it as a dummy clip.

Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions?

Thanks for your time!
Randy

randytheking wrote: Here's the catch: First, if warp is on, the clips follow each other at the tempo of the first clip. I need each scene to play at the individual launch tempo I defined in the master column.

i'm confused about exactly what you mean by this.

practically speaking, you'll need to have warp ON for all clips in your set. if you have correctly entered the tempos into the scene names ("XXXBPM" incorporated into the scene name) then the actual master tempo will change when a scene is fired.

if there is a playback problem with a clip at that point, it must be because it is not warped properly

in terms of creating a true "empty" clip: in one way it doesn't really matter if an audio clip contains silence or not, as it will still be a .wav file and take up the same space on HD. however, it would be helpful to have silence so that in case of a failure of your volume envelope technique, that some inappropriate sound might sneak into your mix. and of course if it is silence, then you don't even need to do the envelope thing. you can look into looping a short silence, rather than having a long one..

you can record a silent input, or sometimes you can freeze and flatten midi track selections where nothing is happening (i seem to sometimes be able to do this, sometimes not)

You are correct. They do play flawlessly when manually launched scene by scene. And yes, the master tempo does change when they are launched MANUALLY.

Restating, I need each scene to kick off the scene that follows it...hence the need for "Follow Action". Since Ableton Live doesn't have a "Scene Follow Action" I am left with "CLIP Follow Action" and must tell all the clips in a scene to "Follow Action - Next". In essence, this creates a Scene Follow Action.

Again, when a clip is set to follow a clip (and they are both warp enabled), the first clip sets the tempo and the second clip (regardless of it's own tempo) follows or warps to the tempo of the first clip.

That's the problem I need to solve.

ok, i understand you now

well, scene follow actions are possible by dummy clips which involve midi loopback (midiyoke, IAC)

or, as it sounds like you just want to hit play once and never look at the computer again, can i recommend the arrangement view. tempo changes can be automated there.

longjohns wrote:ok, i understand you now

well, scene follow actions are possible by dummy clips which involve midi loopback (midiyoke, IAC)

or, as it sounds like you just want to hit play once and never look at the computer again, can i recommend the arrangement view. tempo changes can be automated there.

Ya it seems like you are using the session view (non-linear way of thinking) to do something that just plays all the way thru EXACTLY the way you want it (linear timescale).. if you're not making any kind of variations or changes, then why not use arrangement view? and in that case you might not even need Live..

Yes. I just want to hit play once a set and not have to mess with it until the next set. So...well...um...can I get some instruction on that? Do you work for Ableton or are you a user like me?

When I go to the arrangement view, I don't see anything I can manipulate regarding the clips themselves. I'm about three weeks into working with Ableton. I'm not new into DAW, but I am new to Ableton. I've read the user manual several times and nothing seems to point me to a solution.

Local Ableton gurus tell me Ableton does not allow clip follow (with warp enabled) to change tempo from clip to clip. I thought I might find someone on the manufacturer's forum to guide me through it. I'm sure there must be a way.

Please don't take this as rude, but can you help other that general "look here" suggestions? I've looked all over. I'm not the kind of user that posts because the answer isn't right in front of my face. I exhaust all avenues before hopping on a forum because this type of support venue usually involves a great deal of typing and ping-ponging of Q&A...not my idea of problem solving.

On another note, I do have some songs (scenes) that have tempo changes within the .wav file. I haven't enabled warp on those files because I don't want it warped to one tempo. Any guidance on how to warp-enable those clips would be greatly appreciated because I would like to enable follow action on those clips as well all the while having warp follow the tempo changes throughout the .wav file.

Other notes on what I'm doing: I create backing tracks/sequences in another program and bounce them to .wav and then upload them as clips to Ableton Live. I have nine different and discrete .wav files or clips for each session (song in the set list). All are different tempos (mostly all).

Can someone please help? I promise to spread the knowledge.

Can't help you with the re-warping of the clip with tempo changes in it, but i can say i use a footswitch to do scene launches using both my APC40 and Behringer BCF2000. Live has an option to automatically select the next scene, so all i do is press the footswitch at the appropriate time. It's not perfect, but it may help.

..it sounds like you don't want to manipulate anything about the clips. but, arrangement clips have envelopes too.


how to get your session there: the long way would be to record it in, real-time

or, you can select scenes (right click on scene, "select all slots" and then drag it to the arrangement (drag to the arrange icon top right, or hit 'tab' while dragging

on the master track in the arrangement, there is an envelope for tempo. there you can set the tempos for each section (song)

you need to know some tricks for getting exact tempos on that envelope:

1) record them in, and delete irrelevant breakpoints
2) set the limits of the envelope display to your target value, and drag breakpoints to the limit

i have written about that a few times in other threads.. you should be able to search and find a more elaborate explanation of this

To Mode:Masters...We are wireless; therefore, all over the stage/dance floor/club, so running back to a pedal is counterproductive. I have a Novation Launchpad next to my drummer so he can launch each scene individually, but I don't want him to be required to do that. Btw, each scene works flawlessly when launched manually. The problem is when I try to "follow action" each scene (by enabling follow action on each clip). That's when warping takes over and makes them all the same tempo as the first song.

To longjohns...I've already set the tempo for each scene so that is not a problem. The scenes without tempo changes within a scene are still un-warped and I'm ok with launching them manually if I can't get some guidance on how to get warp to follow tempo changes because they are so few, but the scenes that only have one tempo still aren't following each other and assuming their own tempo. They warp to the tempo of the clip in the previous scene. I did search the threads and only found one reference to this topic. Perhaps you can give me the correct key words to search?

try the arrange view

there are no scenes there

this is a thread explaining arrange tempo envelope setting tricks: http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php? ... o+envelope

i searched "tempo envelope" author "longjohns" to get that link

randytheking wrote: To longjohns...I've already set the tempo for each scene so that is not a problem.

it's not a problem if you record the scene launches into the arrangement. but if you drag things over, you'll have to set the envelope values manually

longjohns wrote:

randytheking wrote: To longjohns...I've already set the tempo for each scene so that is not a problem.

it's not a problem if you record the scene launches into the arrangement. but if you drag things over, you'll have to set the envelope values manually

There you go, that's a good idea.. Do what you normally would do, on your own time at band practice or something, and record it into arrange view.. THEN you'll have it all laid out exactly how you'd want it and your drummer wont have to mess with anything while playing live.

Y'all (as we say in Texas) are coming up with some awesome ideas. Unfortunately, none of them are addressing my problem. What you perceive as workarounds create other problems for me. If I understand the Arrangement view, it is creating one loooooooonnnnnnggggg "song". I could be wrong and am certainly willing to admit that, but if that's what the Arrangement view does, then suggesting that tells me you haven't read or aren't taking the time to think through my situation. Does anyone know of a band that plays exactly the same thing every night? I've never seen one. It's a live show. Things change. You're right, if that's all I wanted, I wouldn't need Ableton to do it.

1. Our show is not static. Songs (scenes) aren't always in the same order. I need to be able to change the order of scenes quickly.
2. We add and delete songs regularly.
3. I am not recording stuff we already do. I am creating stuff we don't currently do so I can play it behind the band in a live show.

So let's get back to the real issue. I need to be able to initiate a set of clips to play. When they are finished, I need the next set of clips to play. When they are finished, I need the next set of clips to play. When the last set of clips plays, I want it to stop. I know how to do this in Ableton Live...IF I initiate each set of clips (scene) MANUALLY. Believe me, I know it works like a charm. No complaints. The question is - how do I automate that so no one is required to push any buttons during a set?

Every music player in the world will do this...for SINGLE clips (mp3, wav, aiff, etc.). Think playlist in iTunes. Every song has a different tempo. Rearrange them however you want. Simple enough, right? I need some software program that will do that exact thing, but for multiple clips simultaneously.

I was told Ableton Live is built to do that, so I bought a copy (instead of getting a hack from one of my many friends that have one). I bought a Launchpad along with a bunch of other gear and cables to support this effort. I have all the tracks created and loaded into Ableton Live. Now after lots of time and money, I'm stuck. Sorry for the rant, but I need to get past this hurdle and I'm tired of typing ping-pong emails reexplaining what it is I'm doing and why other suggestions won't work. Surely, I'm not the first person in the world to think of this.

randytheking wrote:Y'all (as we say in Texas) are coming up with some awesome ideas. Unfortunately, none of them are addressing my problem. What you perceive as workarounds create other problems for me. If I understand the Arrangement view, it is creating one loooooooonnnnnnggggg "song". I could be wrong and am certainly willing to admit that, but if that's what the Arrangement view does, then suggesting that tells me you haven't read or aren't taking the time to think through my situation. Does anyone know of a band that plays exactly the same thing every night? I've never seen one. It's a live show. Things change. You're right, if that's all I wanted, I wouldn't need Ableton to do it.

1. Our show is not static. Songs (scenes) aren't always in the same order. I need to be able to change the order of scenes quickly.
2. We add and delete songs regularly.
3. I am not recording stuff we already do. I am creating stuff we don't currently do so I can play it behind the band in a live show.

So let's get back to the real issue. I need to be able to initiate a set of clips to play. When they are finished, I need the next set of clips to play. When they are finished, I need the next set of clips to play. When the last set of clips plays, I want it to stop. I know how to do this in Ableton Live...IF I initiate each set of clips (scene) MANUALLY. Believe me, I know it works like a charm. No complaints. The question is - how do I automate that so no one is required to push any buttons during a set?

Every music player in the world will do this...for SINGLE clips (mp3, wav, aiff, etc.). Think playlist in iTunes. Every song has a different tempo. Rearrange them however you want. Simple enough, right? I need some software program that will do that exact thing, but for multiple clips simultaneously.

I was told Ableton Live is built to do that, so I bought a copy (instead of getting a hack from one of my many friends that have one). I bought a Launchpad along with a bunch of other gear and cables to support this effort. I have all the tracks created and loaded into Ableton Live. Now after lots of time and money, I'm stuck. Sorry for the rant, but I need to get past this hurdle and I'm tired of typing ping-pong emails reexplaining what it is I'm doing and why other suggestions won't work. Surely, I'm not the first person in the world to think of this.

Basically you have a few options.. Trigger the scenes manually, like you've been doing. Use arrangement view, copy/paste/cut and swap things around when you need to make a different set list (not the easiest thing in the world, would be a lot easier to drag scenes around) or hop on the bus with the rest of us wanting "follow scenes" or whatever you want to call it.

Ah, but there is ALWAYS a solution. Sorry, I'm an electrical engineer and software programmer so I believe EVERYTHING can be solved. I know, huge downfall of mine, but hey!?!

I just got off a long call with tech support in Berlin and I believe we have a solution. MIDI track - dummy clip - map note to next scene. Place the note at the position I would normally press the next button on the launchpad. The tech is going to work on the details and send me something Monday. I'll post what we find so everyone else can use it too.