Ableton Forum

This may seem like a real basic question, but can't quite get it working. Here's the deal: I'm used to just recording notes, beats, etc, to create clips, but what if I want to do some real-time tweaking within the plugins and have that be retained in the playback of each clip? From my experience, whenever I go to play the clip back every knob setting within the plugin is just still set where I last left it, rather than changing along as I initially recorded. Do I need to change recording modes in order to apply tweaking to clips?

A good example of this would be wobbly dubstep bass that involves manually changing LFO speed. This is something where one would want to record changes to the LFO speed and have those tweaks saved for playback within each clip.

Unfortunately you can't really record automation directly into clips, but you can record MIDI CC messages into them. So if you map a MIDI knob to a LFO in a plugin (not an Ableton plugin) you can record that knob tweak into the clip as MIDI CC, but you can't record moving the knob with a mouse into the clip.

It may be that you have to use the plugin's native mapping as well, rather than mapping it in Live.

Chris Paget wrote:This may seem like a real basic question, but can't quite get it working. Here's the deal: I'm used to just recording notes, beats, etc, to create clips, but what if I want to do some real-time tweaking within the plugins and have that be retained in the playback of each clip? From my experience, whenever I go to play the clip back every knob setting within the plugin is just still set where I last left it, rather than changing along as I initially recorded. Do I need to change recording modes in order to apply tweaking to clips?

A good example of this would be wobbly dubstep bass that involves manually changing LFO speed. This is something where one would want to record changes to the LFO speed and have those tweaks saved for playback within each clip.

yep big weakness that this is not handled by the program yet because its a standard situation when compiling live stets..

workarounds are not easy aswell..but possible to build fx racks for each clip and have an external clip on a midi track rerouted into live switching the devices on and off.. i did this from an external instrument ( clavia G2) but should be possible by iac rerouting or at least a hardware midi patch aswell... problem is the external controler asignment than.
Auto selection via remote signal? dont know how to do that.. at least not yet... is it possible?

probably again a task for mfl :-/

Wow, that is very surprising that automapping is not possible. Seems like it would be a huge asset for the program.

ethios4 wrote:Unfortunately you can't really record automation directly into clips, but you can record MIDI CC messages into them. So if you map a MIDI knob to a LFO in a plugin (not an Ableton plugin) you can record that knob tweak into the clip as MIDI CC, but you can't record moving the knob with a mouse into the clip.

It may be that you have to use the plugin's native mapping as well, rather than mapping it in Live.

Am I reading this right to say that, if I assigned knobs in non-Ableton plugin instruments using my novation remote, I'd be able to have automation? Or is that too simple of a breakdown?

render the clips in arrangement view and then add them to library as a new clip in session view...they will have the automation and effects applied to them at render time...and will play as you set them...(uneditiable obviously)

i.e. bounce the track...even if very short...

am I all messed up on this?? that is doable...right??

evaodland wrote:render the clips in arrangement view and then add them to library as a new clip in session view...they will have the automation and effects applied to them at render time...and will play as you set them...(uneditiable obviously)

i.e. bounce the track...even if very short...

am I all messed up on this?? that is doable...right??

yes.. but that is borring.. what are you supposed to do on stage than? looking good?

Chris Paget wrote:Wow, that is very surprising that automapping is not possible. Seems like it would be a huge asset for the program.

ethios4 wrote:Unfortunately you can't really record automation directly into clips, but you can record MIDI CC messages into them. So if you map a MIDI knob to a LFO in a plugin (not an Ableton plugin) you can record that knob tweak into the clip as MIDI CC, but you can't record moving the knob with a mouse into the clip.

It may be that you have to use the plugin's native mapping as well, rather than mapping it in Live.

Am I reading this right to say that, if I assigned knobs in non-Ableton plugin instruments using my novation remote, I'd be able to have automation? Or is that too simple of a breakdown?

Yes, something like that. It's been awhile since I've set it up. What I would do is assign the macro knobs in Massive to controller knobs using the "Learn" function in Massive. Then I would play a MIDI clip with some notes in it, with recording armed for that channel. As I tweak the knobs it is recorded into the MIDI clip. The clip loops and the knob recording is overwritten as it loops.

Yes it is a big disappointment that it is not possible to simply record automation into clips yet, but according to Ableton doing this will require a rewrite of the entire software. Disappointing, but it can still be done.

Chris Paget wrote:Wow, that is very surprising that automapping is not possible. Seems like it would be a huge asset for the program.

Yes, make that "automation," not "automapping." You can tell what's on my mind here..

ethios4 wrote:

Chris Paget wrote:
Yes it is a big disappointment that it is not possible to simply record automation into clips yet, but according to Ableton doing this will require a rewrite of the entire software. Disappointing, but it can still be done.

actually with the grouptrack feature wher its posible to launch 2 clips simultaniously it would be enough to remove the fucking controler prohibition to achive quite a part of you desired operation ...and thats far from rewriting the program... just removing one of theese "are you sure" safty routines..

to avoid user irritation the program got crippled... quite similar as in the early versions where you was only able to assign one controler to one destination.. also a total unencessary prohibition.. but thats history now even got much better with the scaling..

ups..thats reminds me to a wish.. the range and the scaling of parameter assignments should be set in 2 seperated parameters..this way one knob could perform multiple operations.. like from center to the left aux send 1 .. and from center to the right aux send 2...

3phase wrote:ups..thats reminds me to a wish.. the range and the scaling of parameter assignments should be set in 2 seperated parameters..this way one knob could perform multiple operations.. like from center to the left aux send 1 .. and from center to the right aux send 2...

+1 Yes please.

ethios4 wrote:

3phase wrote:ups..thats reminds me to a wish.. the range and the scaling of parameter assignments should be set in 2 seperated parameters..this way one knob could perform multiple operations.. like from center to the left aux send 1 .. and from center to the right aux send 2...

+1 Yes please.

Hey guys, I moved to the feature wishlist. Gets more attention there, I guess.

you can record clip automation for 3rd party vsts...if that helps any

3dot... wrote:you can record clip automation for 3rd party vsts...if that helps any

But not if you use Live's mapping instead of the plugin's mapping, right?

ethios4 wrote:

3dot... wrote:you can record clip automation for 3rd party vsts...if that helps any

But not if you use Live's mapping instead of the plugin's mapping, right?

yeah.. there's that.. (forgot to mention)

it works either with plugs which have their own midi-map feature..
or a pre set midi implementation..

of course if clip automation is really needed...
there are the old workarounds...(dummy clips/midiyoke)

Chris Paget wrote:This may seem like a real basic question, but can't quite get it working.

Welcome to the huge club of live users who have asked about "recording automation in Session?"
then found out that Live doesn't do that.

Here's me in 2006 ... http://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?p=297784


there are five stages of coming to terms with "no recording automation in session", and these are
1. Denial – I must be doing something wrong, it can't be the program

2. Anger – those idiots !!! why did they make it like this !?!?!

3. Bargaining – "Just let me record automation ... and I will never post as b0unce again"

4. Depression – "I'm so sad that I can't record my full body knob turns, why bother recording anything ever again"

5. Acceptance – why not render your ghost-clips to a third rewired copy of Live running in demo-mode, through a midi-pipe with some jitter smoothing and then it's the same thing!!! Nobody really needs to record what they are doing, when we can type it in, in binary!



(note: stage 6 is sarcasm)