Ableton Forum

The Strings Ensemble in EIC II - does anyone else find them slightly out of tune? Just slightly flat? Or is it me?

re.mark wrote:The Strings Ensemble in EIC II - does anyone else find them slightly out of tune? Just slightly flat? Or is it me?

out of tune, i don't know, i don't think so, but the entire sound library in ableton is very lame and needs a hell lot of work and tweaking, which is i assume intended and in a way a good thing, makes it more individual as everyone will tweak them differently.

You're lucky. Just used them yesterday. Absolutely tuned.

OK. Someone humor me.
Open up Live and Load 2 midi tracks. Stick the EIC Grand Piano on one midi track, and EIC String Ensemble (on Legato) on the 2nd midi track.
Arm them on the same midi channel so your midi keyboard plays both at the same time.
Play and listen.
Now, Open up the String Ensemble chain, then the Legato chain, then the Sustain chain, and detune +10cents. And Play again.
Map a knob or button to that and flick between 0 and +10 and tell me what you hear.

Consider yourself humored: I think the vibrato in the EIC string ensemble patch make it hard to hear pitch accurately. So after trying your experiment I loaded up an instance of Analog and set it to generate a single sine wave, so I could listen for beats. It sure seems to me that they match.

Now, maybe they shouldn't. A physical piano will usually be tuned with stretched octaves, so that the high notes are slightly sharp and the low ones slightly flat. EIC Grand Piano does not seem to me to be doing that.

Ok cool cheers! must just be me!! (going mad again!)
I actually really like the EIC II that I got with Live7 so Im not complaining - just wanted to check.

ark wrote:
Now, maybe they shouldn't. A physical piano will usually be tuned with stretched octaves, so that the high notes are slightly sharp and the low ones slightly flat. EIC Grand Piano does not seem to me to be doing that.

How is this possible? then wouldnt every subsequent octave be more and more off, so the entire piano would have to be tuned "stretched out" not just one particular octave? Get what I am saying?

If say the octave of C1 started a little lower and ended a little higher than normal, then C2 would have to start a little higher (since the bottom C note of the C2 octave is the same as the top C note of the C1 octave) than normal and end EVEN higher still...

Not questioning you, just trying to understand how that works

good basic info on DIY piano tuning on this site:

http://piano.detwiler.us/#axzz0paNdbnAD

DangerousDave wrote:How is this possible? then wouldnt every subsequent octave be more and more off, so the entire piano would have to be tuned "stretched out" not just one particular octave? Get what I am saying?

Yes I get it, and yes you are correct.

If I understand it correctly, the rationale is that piano strings are quite stiff, and as a result, the harmonics are not quite at the frequency that theory says they should be at. Because of this, the piano sounds better when it is tuned so that the high strings are in tune with the harmonics of the low strings.

Look for "piano stretched tuning" online and you will see lots of information.

Here is a chart that suggests that for some concert grands, the lowest notes will be as much as 20 cents flat and the highest notes as much as 40 cents sharp (!)

One of the piano tuner guys that came to my place once explained the tune stretching to me, he was talking about psychoacoustics and it all made lots of sense. Can't remember any details though.

ah cool, I get it now thanks for the info, and sorry for the post jack OP

SubFunk wrote:

re.mark wrote:The Strings Ensemble in EIC II - does anyone else find them slightly out of tune? Just slightly flat? Or is it me?

out of tune, i don't know, i don't think so, but the entire sound library in ableton is very lame and needs a hell lot of work and tweaking, which is i assume intended and in a way a good thing, makes it more individual as everyone will tweak them differently.

??? really? you think the lib sounds so lame to eforce and motivate creativity? ...ok.. thats a good thing...

maybe i ve seen them with the wrong eyes..a magix music maker wouldnt do such sense full things...