Ableton Forum

- I recorded a long wav-track which I want to cut into loops
- a few parts I selected (always even bars) and copied to a new track
- I few of those copied parts I moved a bit using the highest resolution (Alt+0) after chich I selected a couple (2 or 4) even bars using beat resolution (Alt+3) and selected this loop using Alt + L
- these loops sounds perfectly on playback, no weird start or end points
- when I render these loops I get an file doesn't sound as perfectly looped as the one on playback!

No matter what render settings I am using, the rendered version is always worse than the original. It seems that when I move the audio a bit (Alt+0 resolution) and then select a loop out of it, things fuck up in Live

I can't simply share this song (25 mb). That would make life easier. I have dealines to reach as well. So I will use something else.

I am a very experienced DAW user and started using Live since 1.5.

I checked Live 3.04: same behavior!

I do feel really bad about this. All the problems I have had with Live.... old versions had rendered problems too in all sorts of ways. I give up: Live is not good for me. It might be cool for live players, but for professional people like me there are lots of serious bugs!

Dear raapie,

Have you got the Clips Fade on.

Try the same thing with it set to off i.e. no fade.

I had different sounding loops the other day depending on whether it was on or off when rendering.

Could be your having the same problem?

Ashley_K

no without the fades the rendered version is different.

very annoying.

I used Nuendo 2.2 instead.

thanks for your response.

rendering is very bad in Live...

Dear Raapie,

When your rendering the loops do you Render to Disk or are you using the Consolidate.

I think there may be differences between the two methods?

If you are using Consolidate try with the Clip Fade turned off.

If you are using Render to Disk try with Normalize turned off, render as loop turned off and Clip Fade turned off.

We might as well try and find out what is causing the problem,
as you should be able to get the result you want!

Ashley_K

"I think there may be differences between the two methods?

If you are using Consolidate try with the Clip Fade turned off.

If you are using Render to Disk try with Normalize turned off, render as loop turned off and Clip Fade turned off. "

I tried Consolidate. Fades on/Off., Normalize On/Off, REnderAsLoop On/Off .. everything. Hours and hours.

It seems that when you move the audio (so like using offsets) and then reset locators, the rendered version is not the one with the different offset. I can't explain it properly.

I really feel bad about it, because the simplicaity of Live is great. But in the end, I feel like a beta-tester. This stuff is released way too soon.

Thanks for your help and thoughts. I really feel bad about this. I give up using the application for professional things. Might be cool for dj-ing.

Hello,

Did you have some global groove amount set when you rendered the file?

I noticed once after rendering a clip and re-importing it to the same Set that it sounded different... I thought that Live was applying some kind of time-stretching to the file again (because with re-pitch mode sounded good) but I found that it was just the groove setting: I had the default clip groove set to swing-16 so Live was applying the groove again to the audio file (or that's my conclusion).

I don't know if this solves your question but I'd recommend everyone using global groove to set the default clip's groove to straight to avoid problems...

Another problem I found is because of the plugin delay compensation (PDC)...
Live 4 still doesn't have PDC so when a clip is processed through 'heavy' plugins and the rendered file is imported again into the Live set, it could be delayed some milliseconds so the final mix could not sound as expected (specially if the rendered file has some kind of drums or percussion). In fact, just a few milliseconds could ruin your mix...

Finally, another thing to take in consideration before rendering is the track and the master volume. I always try to render with the master at 0db.

Hope this helps...

Well,well,well.. Ableton Live - you did it again - bullshitting us!! I'm a experienced DAW-user/builder myself, and iv'e used Live since 1.5 and up all the grades. Have ONE mix rendered right, from Live 3.2 (or 0.3) - all others are bloody useless - TOTALLY!!! I feel the same as raapie on this - my mixes are done well, with minimum of extra-stuff, cause of the render-bug that seems to follow the Abletons everywhere..!

Really annoying, specially when the mix/song lacks HALF of the sound-picture when rendered, and all of them were just great before the useless and destroying process from Live!

So, this is ANOTHER bug - as with the midi-feature that sucks up all the cpu in Live 4.0.x if you just TRY adding 4-8 tracks, and create ONE more miditrack, it's all tipping just over the crackle-top - REAL BAD TOO!!!

So, Live-team: FIX THIS PLEASE!!! We can always switch to Logic/Nuendo/SX or whatever working STABLE!! It should be on the 1. priority-list to fix BUGS!!

Regs,
Jo

yannxou wrote:Hello,

Did you have some global groove amount set when you rendered the file?

I noticed once after rendering a clip and re-importing it to the same Set that it sounded different... I thought that Live was applying some kind of time-stretching to the file again (because with re-pitch mode sounded good) but I found that it was just the groove setting: I had the default clip groove set to swing-16 so Live was applying the groove again to the audio file (or that's my conclusion).

I don't know if this solves your question but I'd recommend everyone using global groove to set the default clip's groove to straight to avoid problems...

Another problem I found is because of the plugin delay compensation (PDC)...
Live 4 still doesn't have PDC so when a clip is processed through 'heavy' plugins and the rendered file is imported again into the Live set, it could be delayed some milliseconds so the final mix could not sound as expected (specially if the rendered file has some kind of drums or percussion). In fact, just a few milliseconds could ruin your mix...

Finally, another thing to take in consideration before rendering is the track and the master volume. I always try to render with the master at 0db.

Hope this helps...

This is an old bug since it happens in 3.04 too. Haven't' checked older versions... 3.04 doesn't have global groove. But no, I didn't use it.

I also didn't use any plugins. Nothing special of any kind. Pure: one large mono (!!!) wav-track which I used to copy some parts out of it and change the offset a little bit (move the loop to left or right) and reset the locator so I good render it as perfect 85 bpm or 120 bmp loops.

Ableton should fix it. I am sure many other users have problems too. I have had many Live rendering problems in the past. In version 3 and 4! Now I gave up... I feel bad about it, but I can't use a tool I can't trust. I am not trying to harm Ableton. I really hope they fix their bugs. Maybe I will enjoy a future update...

rewiring into sequencer of choice for rendering is not an option?

at least untill they fix this bug...

I just opened the wav-track in 2 Nuendo projects and started working from there. No problem. The recordings were clean.

Thanks for reply!

raapie wrote:I just opened the wav-track in 2 Nuendo projects and started working from there. No problem. The recordings were clean.

Thanks for reply!

do you mean that you rendered the whole track that you recorded in Live and then opened it in Nuendo?
or do you mean the rendered loops?
or did you rewire the track into Nuendo?

thanx!

no, I just imported that wav-track into Nuendo. no convertions needed.

raapie wrote:no, I just imported that wav-track into Nuendo. no convertions needed.

oh ok.
i thought that you had recorded the track in Live, but you just imported a wav track you already had?

no. I recorded the track with Live. Live records in a standard wav-format which you can open in any program which can read that format. Nuendo can read wav-tracks.

ok finally got it