Ableton Forum

I've been using Suite 8 for a little while now, and I want something a little more powerful for my productions than 'analog'. I'm looking for something that is powerful and easily integrated with Ableton. I'm relatively new to these forums and electronic music production in general, so I apologize in advance for my lack of knowledge when it comes to plug-ins and 3rd party apps. I've heard great things about NI's Massive, is that something I should look into, or are there better options out there? Thanks!

When you say more "powerful," what do you mean? Analog is a lot more flexible than your average VA emulation synth. A lot is hidden under the hood of that little box and I think people don't realize its depth: pulse width modulation, sub oscillators, osc sync (sorta), 2 filters and an envelope for each one, unison mode...... So while I think the sync mode could be implemented better, this synth alongside most VA-subtractive bread-n-butter type VSTS is almost always more flexible, which I most certainly equate with "powerful."

OR do you mean perceived sound quality? If you want a softsynth that sounds like butter from keypress one, check out Sylenth1 for sure. It has unison voicing for each oscillator that is unrivaled in the business. Nothing comes close. Which means huge, smoothly phat sounds.

Massive is a good synth but a bit over-rated in my subjective view. I think it sounds cold and generally too digital/thin. I like it for step-sequenced pad sounds but that's mostly it. Others will say otherwise .

I think for your "newness" factor, Sylenth1 is a great place to start out for big-sounding analogy synth stuff. But don't short-change Analog to quick, it's a very under-estimated little synth, and I guarantee that no other 3rd party plug is going to "integrate into ableton" in the same way.

-M

what do you miss in analog?
I personally don't use it either most of the time. I don't really dig the UI.

Analog doesn't come loaded up with lush sounding presets unlike some VST synths which are often awash with reverb and other sweetening FX.

I don't use it as my VA of choice and am not inspired by it's GUI much but before you reject Analog out of hand, you may want to try using it in a rack with some FX and layering multiple synth sounds together, this gives it more of a 'Massive' or 'Zebra' type of sound.

Also, try looking at things such as Covert Operators NUmber Cruncher for Analog
http://www.thecovertoperators.org/Ablet ... ge-ask.tpl

Analog is like an old 70s muscle car - powerful but a bit needy, you have to work a bit harder with it to get results than some other analog VAs, but with a bit of work, it can be rewarding.

leeds is right about the FX, I always create a rack that has Chorus and PingPong Delay dropped in after Analog, these are the usual culprits for FX with things like impOSCAr, minimonsta, etc, and fit very well here.

-M

why not a real synth? maybe you dont know what you miss?

Good point.

Vintage Analogue synths cost a lot of money and are of variable quality (a bashed in Jupiter 8 not even close to mint condition selling for over $5000 dollars on ebay not too long ago etc), newer synths such as Dave Smith's synths or a Little Phatty etc, while fantastic machines, often get dissed as not being 'analogue sounding' enough compared to the vintage stuff, and building modular units can be expensive and time consuming.

So cost and convenience factor is why people turn to analog VAs. Although as good as a plugin can be, it can never recapture all the vibe and mojo of a real hardware analogue synth.

leedsquietman wrote:newer synths such as Dave Smith's synths or a Little Phatty etc, while fantastic machines, often get dissed as not being 'analogue sounding' enough compared to the vintage stuff.

Don't know about the Little Phatty, but Dave Smith's synths are all analogue filters and DCOs (digitally controlled oscillators), it does slightly affect the sound of the synths, as DCO's don't drift at all compared to VCOs really, and one of the things about analogue hardware is the natural drift the oscillators have. One of the quickest ways to get an analogue sound out of digital synths is to program in a few LFOs on tunning and the filter, set to barely effect the sound it does give that feel a bit.

So now this is a thread about whether modern analog synths with DCO's sound as good as the classic analogs......siiiiiiiiigh. (I just started a similar thread over in the lounge about the MOPHO, but it's so funny to see how a simple thread can instantly become something like this...) Anyway there's PLENTY of that discussion over on Gearslutz.com, you boys should go knock yourself out. I really don't think the OP posted because he was in the market for a Moog, but hey, whadda I know...

-M

there are good analog synths out there that cost less than some plug ins.. i ve a bit 99 here...it has dco´s and analog filters ..dont sounds as fat as a jupiter but absolutly beatifull.. i bought it for 200 euro....

however.. exept someoverseen goodies analog synths are expensiv theese days..tendency rising.. interesting in a world where most people dont even pay for plug in synths...

Machinesworking wrote:

leedsquietman wrote:newer synths such as Dave Smith's synths or a Little Phatty etc, while fantastic machines, often get dissed as not being 'analogue sounding' enough compared to the vintage stuff.

Don't know about the Little Phatty, but Dave Smith's synths are all analogue filters and DCOs (digitally controlled oscillators), it does slightly affect the sound of the synths, as DCO's don't drift at all compared to VCOs really, and one of the things about analogue hardware is the natural drift the oscillators have. One of the quickest ways to get an analogue sound out of digital synths is to program in a few LFOs on tunning and the filter, set to barely effect the sound it does give that feel a bit.

Isn't the "Slop" parameter supposed to approximate drift? I agree it's not quite the same though.

On Analog, I agree with all of the above. Underrated, integrates well, rack it w/effects, there are definitely better soft synths out there but you can get results with it.

mholloway wrote:So now this is a thread about whether modern analog synths with DCO's sound as good as the classic analogs......siiiiiiiiigh. (I just started a similar thread over in the lounge about the MOPHO, but it's so funny to see how a simple thread can instantly become something like this...) Anyway there's PLENTY of that discussion over on Gearslutz.com, you boys should go knock yourself out. I really don't think the OP posted because he was in the market for a Moog, but hey, whadda I know...

-M

Oh Jesus dude? good luck trying to monitor the forums, you'll need it. Expect lots of butt hurt though, most of us don't take too kindly to security guards, especially ones that don't
even bother to read before yipping.
Let me highlight the part that's FUCKING RELEVANT TO OPs QUESTION.

Machinesworking wrote: Don't know about the Little Phatty, but Dave Smith's synths are all analogue filters and DCOs (digitally controlled oscillators), it does slightly affect the sound of the synths, as DCO's don't drift at all compared to VCOs really, and one of the things about analogue hardware is the natural drift the oscillators have. One of the quickest ways to get an analogue sound out of digital synths is to program in a few LFOs on tunning and the filter, set to barely effect the sound it does give that feel a bit.

Now I suppose it would take some sort of super genius to figure out that Analog is entirely capable of implementing that same workaround, so I guess I get your post.

wow guys thanks for all the replies and opinions. i guess i'm just not satisfied with the sounds i'm getting from it, even with chorus/reverb/delay ect. in an effects rack...just looking for something a little phatter and phunkier hah. i wish i had the $ to shell out for a moog but unfortunately a plug in is going to have to be the way to go for me. another noob question (i apologize): would I be able to map massive or sylenth1's paramaters to my apc40? and does recording automation function the same way as it would with ableton's instruments? thank you!

I really should have mentioned this in my first post, but what i'm really looking for is a VSTi that is great for making huge synth bass sounds...artists like pretty lights, big gigantic etc. are kinda what i'm thinking. i've been able to make some good sounds with analog but my bass sounds are definitely lacking and i need a more inspiring instrument!

I love the sound of Lives Analog but I hate the UI