Ableton Forum

I'm the head of an industrial band. We're looking at getting a pair of keyboardists for live shows, but we have one problem. It's the problem that has kept me away from keyboardists in the past. Our programming contains a lot of vst driven arpeggios that must be triggered exactly on time.

You might say "well a good keyboardist would be exactly on time"... Not necessarily in this situation, unfortunately. I've found that if the arps aren't triggered on the exact beat, everything starts to sound pretty trashy. We're talking 10ms delay or head start could spell disaster and mess up the entire song. Even if it only happened every once in a while, I want to keep this from happening at all.

I've messed with the built-in Arpeggio plugin, but it doesn't help when there are varying lengths of notes. I have several arps that are 4 measure sequences, but I chop them up to play only one measure for some parts. At that point, the arpeggio feature ceases to work as needed.

I need a plugin (or a programmer to make one) that will grab the MIDI note that is played and hold it back from the VST until the next beat (preferably being able to select anywhere between 1/32 note and 1 measure delay). Much like Ableton already does when triggering clips, but we don't want to trigger clips as we want these to be played live for more artistic freedom.

For a good example, Novation's V-Station vst seems to have this feature built in. We use it on one song in a live setting because of this capability. It will register a key hit, but won't send it to the vst until the next 1/4 note.

Help?

-Andrew / Vox, Guitar, Programming
http://www.echelonhigh.com

edit: I also want to be able to send MIDI data to Ableton and have it be sent back to a hardware synth for triggering.

you don't need a plugin.

instead of playing the vst directly, create a clip for each note that you want to play. make the notes very very long, and use midi remote to trigger the clip for each note when you press the note.

use clip quantise to select what you want to quantise to.

use gate mode so they turn off when you lift up your key.

voila.

I've messed with the built-in Arpeggio plugin, but it doesn't help when there are varying lengths of notes.

I don*t know exactly what you mean, can you explain a bit more detailed?

mr.ergonomics wrote:

I've messed with the built-in Arpeggio plugin, but it doesn't help when there are varying lengths of notes.

I don*t know exactly what you mean, can you explain a bit more detailed?

I've attempted to use Ableton's built in arpeggiator to force the note to the correct beat, but it also forces the note to a certain note length.

yes but you can change the note length or do you want predefined note length, like a short sequence?

um...launch quantize to '1/4' ?!

quantizing is only useful for clips. can't do it in the arpeggiator because it hits the note again after that. As I said before, I simply need a way to force ableton to hold a midi note until the next beat, regardless of how long the note is held. it just needs to hold the [NOTE ON] signal

Still have not figured this out. Would an external MIDI timeclock allow for something like this?

In the meantime, I guess I have thought of a better way to word what I need. A way to delay the [Note On] signal until the next logical starting point.

i don't understand why clips are not the answer for you...

i would
Set up the arp you want using the internal plug or various other vsts, and then record the midi into a new clip. Then assign that clip to a note on the keyboard, set launch quantize to your needs. it will loop that clip until you send it the next note.

Lemme know if i'm missing something there.

FWIW unless you have some people with a great "look" in mind you can easily get away with one guy triggering clips. Doesn't even need to be a real keyboardist. build a custom monster looking case for a launchpad or other control surface and then you'll have something unique visually and useful sonically for the band.

Perhaps this is what you need?
http://www.innerclocksystems.com/New%20 ... -Lock.html

I don't have one yet, but I believe this syncs to audio, not midi, which is much more solid.

bensuthers-2 wrote:you don't need a plugin.

instead of playing the vst directly, create a clip for each note that you want to play. make the notes very very long, and use midi remote to trigger the clip for each note when you press the note.

use clip quantise to select what you want to quantise to.

use gate mode so they turn off when you lift up your key.

voila.

You only actually need one clip containing a long note on middle C. then assign the clip to be triggered by a note range on your keyboard.

No ideas to offer, but good luck getting it to work. Every industrial band I have read about uses tape or some other playback method for fast arpeggions like you're talking about. Even Mr. Reznor will freely admit that. Listen to the arps on his records and compare to the live recordings. No differences. No way to create studio-quality fidelity between all that unforgiving hardware/software and the imperfect human mind.

crumhorn wrote:

bensuthers-2 wrote:you don't need a plugin.

instead of playing the vst directly, create a clip for each note that you want to play. make the notes very very long, and use midi remote to trigger the clip for each note when you press the note.

use clip quantise to select what you want to quantise to.

use gate mode so they turn off when you lift up your key.

voila.

You only actually need one clip containing a long note on middle C. then assign the clip to be triggered by a note range on your keyboard.

Can you guide me through that?