kick and bass how to make them sound massive and punch
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kick and bass how to make them sound massive and punch
hi
so when writing a track, how much dB are usually kick and bass should be on a channel? i mean peaking at which dB?
for breakbeat / full on trance
mine are usually peaking both (bass and kick @ -12dB)
and how to eq and compress them right? (may be making a group of bass and kick?)
please suggest
better with examples in ableton:)))))
so when writing a track, how much dB are usually kick and bass should be on a channel? i mean peaking at which dB?
for breakbeat / full on trance
mine are usually peaking both (bass and kick @ -12dB)
and how to eq and compress them right? (may be making a group of bass and kick?)
please suggest
better with examples in ableton:)))))
Last edited by netwarrior on Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: kick and bass (breakbeat, full on trance) + eq and compressi
for fullon psy i usually set booth at -6db, and arrange for booth together never reach more than 6db, by
carefully checking phases, ducking bass on kick, adjust lenght for a while.
bass is saw with little lp enveloppe open, folowed by a hp/eq removing low end/infra, keeping fundamental,
slighty boosting just above. Kick is sine pitched with noise for tick, slightly es in mid/high range.
my moto is the less eq/comp but better sound design, better results.
carefully checking phases, ducking bass on kick, adjust lenght for a while.
bass is saw with little lp enveloppe open, folowed by a hp/eq removing low end/infra, keeping fundamental,
slighty boosting just above. Kick is sine pitched with noise for tick, slightly es in mid/high range.
my moto is the less eq/comp but better sound design, better results.
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Re: kick and bass how to make them sound massive and punch
thnks,
but how to make bass and kick sound punch and massive, so how to process them? im really freaking my head out on this ...
how to do better - make a group in ableton, put there a compressor and eq and may be some more? and send kick and bass together to that group? please tell me how to process them and which plugins to use better?
may be some effect chains as examples for ableton in attahment? so i can check? some standart basic settings
but how to make bass and kick sound punch and massive, so how to process them? im really freaking my head out on this ...
how to do better - make a group in ableton, put there a compressor and eq and may be some more? and send kick and bass together to that group? please tell me how to process them and which plugins to use better?
may be some effect chains as examples for ableton in attahment? so i can check? some standart basic settings
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- Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 6:22 am
Re: kick and bass how to make them sound massive and punch
all this in terms of breakbeat music
Re: kick and bass how to make them sound massive and punch
Use your ears, compressor, EQ and leave enough headroom for the mastering stage.
Also, read, read, read and practice, practice, practice.
Also, read, read, read and practice, practice, practice.
fe real!
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Re: kick and bass how to make them sound massive and punch
yep:) thats i know , to read and practice - so i do now.
but which eq settings and compressor settings to use? and which is the best VST compressor and EQ?
im serious about my future productions, so im now setting up my studio all way up !
may be someone could send me a ableton example of compressor and eq chain as an example?
i use ableton suite vers. 8.1.3
but which eq settings and compressor settings to use? and which is the best VST compressor and EQ?
im serious about my future productions, so im now setting up my studio all way up !
may be someone could send me a ableton example of compressor and eq chain as an example?
i use ableton suite vers. 8.1.3
Re: kick and bass how to make them sound massive and punch
You need a point of reference, (Commercial Volume) to start:
Sample a Kik you like from your genre. (It's already EQ'd, compressed and limited so that can be your starting "level". Choose a bass and make it work with that kick then make the rest of your track fit with the kick and bass.
Don't worry about fader levels, but make sure the master isn't clipping.
Just make everything fit around the kick and bass like the commercial track.
Sample a Kik you like from your genre. (It's already EQ'd, compressed and limited so that can be your starting "level". Choose a bass and make it work with that kick then make the rest of your track fit with the kick and bass.
Don't worry about fader levels, but make sure the master isn't clipping.
Just make everything fit around the kick and bass like the commercial track.
"Let you're body feel the sound! Let it cover you up and down!"
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Re: kick and bass how to make them sound massive and punch
My intentions aren't to hijack this thread, I am just having similar questions, so I'd like to join in. However if this is too off topic I'll start a new thread.
When it comes to ducking bass, I would just like to hear some others approach in detail (settings etc)
I am always trying to make my live set I use with my band sound better. I play drum tracks and synths. Latley I have been trying to get a better final output. This is especially difficult with the drums and bass.
My drums are on individual tracks i.e. kick, snare, hat, etc. They all run into a master drum channel. This way I can control sends for the individual drum sounds, OR effect all the drums on the master channel (like with the Finger or reverb).
My Bass synth is on it's own track.
SO,
Currently I have a little compression on my kick, and snare. A compressor on the Bass synth ducking the kick, and on the Master Track a compressor followed by a limiter. Is this wise? Are there other ways? It seems hard to find a general ducking setting that works well on my Bass synth with the wide variety of kicks I throw at it. It also seems to difficult to dial up and down the amount of ducking without loosing so much bass, or at least the illusion of it.
When it comes to ducking bass, I would just like to hear some others approach in detail (settings etc)
I am always trying to make my live set I use with my band sound better. I play drum tracks and synths. Latley I have been trying to get a better final output. This is especially difficult with the drums and bass.
My drums are on individual tracks i.e. kick, snare, hat, etc. They all run into a master drum channel. This way I can control sends for the individual drum sounds, OR effect all the drums on the master channel (like with the Finger or reverb).
My Bass synth is on it's own track.
SO,
Currently I have a little compression on my kick, and snare. A compressor on the Bass synth ducking the kick, and on the Master Track a compressor followed by a limiter. Is this wise? Are there other ways? It seems hard to find a general ducking setting that works well on my Bass synth with the wide variety of kicks I throw at it. It also seems to difficult to dial up and down the amount of ducking without loosing so much bass, or at least the illusion of it.
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Re: kick and bass how to make them sound massive and punch
yes lets discuss here!!! no problem!
Re: kick and bass how to make them sound massive and punch
well, if you are compressing the bass track after you are "ducking" (i assume this means a compressor with a sidechain from the kick & possibly snare activating the compressor) it, you are taking away some of the dynamics you originally created with the whole sidechaining thing.
think about it- you've got the kick going into the sidechain input on your bass compressor- this temporarily attenuates (or "ducks") the bass signal whenever the kick hits- you are actually creating a dynamic change in the bass track. if you compress the bass signal after the fact, you are compressing the very dynamic changes you have created with your sidechain effect. so by adding a compressor after a side-chained bass track, you are working against yourself.
think about it- you've got the kick going into the sidechain input on your bass compressor- this temporarily attenuates (or "ducks") the bass signal whenever the kick hits- you are actually creating a dynamic change in the bass track. if you compress the bass signal after the fact, you are compressing the very dynamic changes you have created with your sidechain effect. so by adding a compressor after a side-chained bass track, you are working against yourself.
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Re: kick and bass how to make them sound massive and punch
There are a few tricks I have learnt that will help to seperate the Kick from the Bass. Achieving this to me is the goal of every mixing engineer. This is what makes mixing contnually intriguing because with all the experience in the world, every new project is different than the one before. There are general guiding principles, but just like cooking, to me each time we cook there are subtle variances in how much and just how we add the different spices and herbs.
One trick in getting seperation is delaying one of the tracks by a few milliseconds. Of couse, as you mentioned the most popoular is ducking with the sidechain compressor. You can also put a kick side chain on the master channel to give a more pulsating rythm (not neccessarily a pumping effect.
However, I have learnt that there is no set formula, just spend some time on the forum and learn from the experts here. I am still learning a lot myself. One of the most important things I have learned is that Google is my friend.
One trick in getting seperation is delaying one of the tracks by a few milliseconds. Of couse, as you mentioned the most popoular is ducking with the sidechain compressor. You can also put a kick side chain on the master channel to give a more pulsating rythm (not neccessarily a pumping effect.
However, I have learnt that there is no set formula, just spend some time on the forum and learn from the experts here. I am still learning a lot myself. One of the most important things I have learned is that Google is my friend.
fe real!
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Re: kick and bass how to make them sound massive and punch
memes_33 wrote:.
think about it- you've got the kick going into the sidechain input on your bass compressor- this temporarily attenuates (or "ducks") the bass signal whenever the kick hits- you are actually creating a dynamic change in the bass track. if you compress the bass signal after the fact, you are compressing the very dynamic changes you have created with your sidechain effect. so by adding a compressor after a side-chained bass track, you are working against yourself.
So should one not use compression on the master channel if the individual tracks are compressed, OR should I not compress the individual tracks and try ducking on the master? What have you guys experienced that works well?
One thing that has come to mind is ducking in a different way. For example using M4L to sort of cheat ducking using the gain on the Bass track instead of a compressors side chain. Anyone tried this?
Not sure I completely understand what you are saying here, could you elaborate?evon wrote:.
One trick in getting seperation is delaying one of the tracks by a few milliseconds. Of couse, as you mentioned the most popoular is ducking with the sidechain compressor. You can also put a kick side chain on the master channel to give a more pulsating rythm (not neccessarily a pumping effect.
Somewhat off of the original post, I am really interested in finding a means to utilize these techniques for live performance with a wide range of music or texture of sound, but mainly electronic style stuff. However when performing music, or rehearsing and creating at practice, there is a lot of variation in Bass and drum textures. Hence the issue of getting good compression/ducking etc. If I were just mixing down a tune or DJing, this would be easier to achieve seeing that much of the sound was already dialed in and did not change much. For example, if I cue up a CR78 kick with a PWM bass sound for one song, but the next tune has a real full, deep, punchy, kick and a Sine SUB bass, these things are way different from each other. I am hoping to make such variations, but still keep the punch in my kick and richness in bass.
I almost always loose the kick in the richness of bass due to performing and not paying much mind to over all sound. I will get lost in say, how cool the synth is sounding, and I will have a tendency to turn it up while mashing keys. Not to mention the sound is usually loud at a band practice. Taking the music from my bedroom and monitors, to practice on the PA is also a process.
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Re: kick and bass how to make them sound massive and punch
Compression, everywhere.
For the bass, use combination of distortion and saturation, and you can pitch it down as well.
Maybe side-chain compress it with the kick
And at the end put again a compressor that goes up to -12db reduction. Make sure the kick is much louder than the rest.
It will pump.
For the bass, use combination of distortion and saturation, and you can pitch it down as well.
Maybe side-chain compress it with the kick
And at the end put again a compressor that goes up to -12db reduction. Make sure the kick is much louder than the rest.
It will pump.
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Re: kick and bass how to make them sound massive and punch
so as i understood i put compression (with ducking) and then saturator / or distortion and after this chain - EQ to eleminate high frequencies which distortion / saturator will give to bass?
and on kick i just put compression and eq?
and how to set compressor for kick ? and for bass? i mean leves of settings?
and on kick i just put compression and eq?
and how to set compressor for kick ? and for bass? i mean leves of settings?
Re: kick and bass how to make them sound massive and punch
13.6 Track Delays
A Track Delay control is available for every track in Live. The control allows delaying or predelaying
the output of tracks in milliseconds in order to compensate for human, acoustic,
hardware and other real-world delays.
This section of the interface can be shown or hidden using its respective Mixer Section
selector.
The Track Delay Control
and Selector.
We do not recommend changing track delays on stage, as it could result in undesirable
clicks or pops in the audio signal. Micro-offsets in Session View clips can be achieved using
the nudge buttons in the Clip View, however track delays can be used in the Arrangement
View for such offsets.
I ususlly use this to delay/offset the Kick (not more than about 10 ms). This delay is not noticeable as a delay per se but it kind of adds some groove/swing to the beat.
A Track Delay control is available for every track in Live. The control allows delaying or predelaying
the output of tracks in milliseconds in order to compensate for human, acoustic,
hardware and other real-world delays.
This section of the interface can be shown or hidden using its respective Mixer Section
selector.
The Track Delay Control
and Selector.
We do not recommend changing track delays on stage, as it could result in undesirable
clicks or pops in the audio signal. Micro-offsets in Session View clips can be achieved using
the nudge buttons in the Clip View, however track delays can be used in the Arrangement
View for such offsets.
I ususlly use this to delay/offset the Kick (not more than about 10 ms). This delay is not noticeable as a delay per se but it kind of adds some groove/swing to the beat.
fe real!