Ableton Forum

I like Live, but there's one main thing that's keeping me from buying it for now, and it's the challenge/response copy protection.

I use two PCs regularly and I'm also considering a laptop. I also like to tweak my PCs and change parts very often. So you can imagine, that right from the start I'd have to deal with C/R's limitations to make Live work on every (new) system.
Being dependent on the internet connection and somebody's availability and good will is just something that me, as a bit of a control freak, can't accept so easily.

You've probably thought about this already, but can't you find some other way that would be more user friendly for the paying customer?

If you look at Reaper, it got a lot of exposure and from what I hear also many customers, although it's easy to pirate or to use without buying it.

A hardware solution (USB dongle) would be even worse, tho, so please don't consider that.

I was thinking maybe some special key file (executable) that would add a unique watermark to Live and would have to be downloaded/updated with every Live update. That way, if somebody shared his copy online, you could at least track him and disable his account, so that he couldn't upgrade anymore or perhaps even use this personalized key file to lock his copy.


On piracy:
I'm not sure the current method is actually preventing the illegal copying. I've seen working pirated copies of Live around.

Furthermore, I'd say that piracy is not only a bad thing. For example, if pirated copies of Windows and MS Office weren't so widespread they wouldn't have become so dominant as they are now. Probably the same applies to Cubase etc. in the DAW world to an extent.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's good to have your software pirated, but it might increase the exposure and eventually draw some paying customers your way.


Regards.

ps. The demo downloads are way too big.

If you do not make any money by makeing music with your software (hardware is difficult to piracy) then it is ok to use pirated software. Who cares if you do not take money or make money of it?!

But if you do - please buy it or be damned.

I do not make money form the software and i use all pirated software. My Windows XP is legal though.

adXok wrote:If you do not make any money by makeing music with your software (hardware is difficult to piracy) then it is ok to use pirated software. Who cares if you do not take money or make money of it?!

But if you do - please buy it or be damned.

I do not make money form the software and i use all pirated software. My Windows XP is legal though.

??? Wow...

Seriously? I don't even know what kind of logic this is... Just because you don't make money from software means you don't have to pay for it? What type of software does this make Live to you then? Entertainment software? Games/movies/music are all entertainment software, do you feel it's right to steal them cause you don't make money from it? How about utility software? Backup software to keep your stolen software safe, or antivirus software to do the same, should that be paid for?

Bottom line is whoever develops the software is the decider of whether the product should be paid for. Ableton charges, you pay. No matter what you think, that's the law. Put yourself in their position.

ugh.

I should add in response to the OP, I'm not a huge fan of Ableton's copy protection, only in that when I replace my computer more than twice I have to email them to get a new one unlocked. I wish this could be done anytime, on my own, online or something. If there were some way to deal with locking and unlocking your 2 computer authorizations on line it would make it a lot easier.

just_in wrote:I like Live, but there's one main thing that's keeping me from buying it for now, and it's the challenge/response copy protection.

I use two PCs regularly and I'm also considering a laptop. I also like to tweak my PCs and change parts very often. So you can imagine, that right from the start I'd have to deal with C/R's limitations to make Live work on every (new) system.
Being dependent on the internet connection and somebody's availability and good will is just something that me, as a bit of a control freak, can't accept so easily.

You've probably thought about this already, but can't you find some other way that would be more user friendly for the paying customer?

If you look at Reaper, it got a lot of exposure and from what I hear also many customers, although it's easy to pirate or to use without buying it.

A hardware solution (USB dongle) would be even worse, tho, so please don't consider that.

I was thinking maybe some special key file (executable) that would add a unique watermark to Live and would have to be downloaded/updated with every Live update. That way, if somebody shared his copy online, you could at least track him and disable his account, so that he couldn't upgrade anymore or perhaps even use this personalized key file to lock his copy.


On piracy:
I'm not sure the current method is actually preventing the illegal copying. I've seen working pirated copies of Live around.

Furthermore, I'd say that piracy is not only a bad thing. For example, if pirated copies of Windows and MS Office weren't so widespread they wouldn't have become so dominant as they are now. Probably the same applies to Cubase etc. in the DAW world to an extent.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's good to have your software pirated, but it might increase the exposure and eventually draw some paying customers your way.


Regards.

ps. The demo downloads are way too big.

How big of a change are you making to your pc? The only change that requires another authorization is a motherboard / cpu swap.

Once Live is authorized, you don't need to connect to their server regularly and be totally dependent on the internet. On the other hand, the 30 day trial, requires an internet connection because you need to authorize everytime you start up the program.

I think it's fair. I need an authorization per machine, and once authorized I can switch between using them whenever I want, with or without the internet. The only thing I can see myself getting annoyed by is the unlock limit. But then, Ableton is not stingy with giving you more unlocks. I could tell them my cat needs it, and they'll send me some.

Live already has a watermark - the serial number. I don't see how the copy protection you suggest is better than the one we have now.

I see little benefit in using a pirated version of Live over the trial. All the features are there, and you get the latest and stablest version. You do need to authorize everytime you start up the app, but if you were going to pirate it, you probably have internet anyway. You can also keep entering a fake email address to get another 30 days.

Peace.

@ PR1392:

Yeah, in general I wouldn't switch CPU or motherboard very often, perhaps once a year. But still, being dependent on an online activation and having limited activations is not the best. Imagine you have to do some important work on a Saturday night and your PC with Live breaks and you've already ran out of activations. You can't just take any PC and install Live on it. You have to contact Ableton and wait for a new authorization.
Again, I can understand that it's maybe not a common situation or a problem for most people.


@ adXok:

I can't say I agree with you. As others have said, it can be used for your own entertainment..
But let's not turn this thread into whether piracy is ok or not etc., since this was not my intent. I merely mentioned that to make some specific points.

I personally think that paying for a program is more about showing support and appreciation for a product. In Live's case, I do appreciate the music program in itself, since it has a nice unique workflow. But I can't say the same for the copy protection part.

I have no problems at all with Abe's copy protection format. Infact, I would have more of a problem if they changed it.

For anyone using several computers I can see it being problematic so perhaps they should consider Reason/Record but then they'd lose the excellent workflow coded inside Live as well as having to suffer a dongle, (40$ to replace).

Jarvisimon wrote:I have no problems at all with Abe's copy protection format. Infact, I would have more of a problem if they changed it.

For anyone using several computers I can see it being problematic so perhaps they should consider Reason/Record but then they'd lose the excellent workflow coded inside Live as well as having to suffer a dongle, (40$ to replace).

But you mentioned the only copy protection (hardware - dongle), which is worse than Live's.

All the other copy protections (serial, key file etc.) are much more user friendly than challenge/response.

just_in wrote: But you mentioned the only copy protection (hardware - dongle), which is worse than Live's.

All the other copy protections (serial, key file etc.) are much more user friendly than challenge/response.

The outcome is still the same for me.....i'm happy the way things are.